Why Puerto Rico Will Never Become the 51st State

UPDATE, August 15, 2013: Since I wrote this piece two years ago, my positions have evolved. My latest Boston Globe opinion piece reflects them. Here is the piece: “Free Puerto Rico from political limbo.”

UPDATE, November 8, 2012: I wrote this piece close to two years ago, and I will be planning to write another one to share other reasons why the latest November 6, 2012 plebiscite really doesn’t do anything to the current status debate.

Americans will never accept a flag with 51 stars in it

As I begin to cover the island’s next status plebiscite—where Puerto Ricans will once again determine in a non-binding referendum their political future—I wanted to take a minute and provide my reasons for why my homeland will never be welcome as the 51st state of the Union. First, a little history:

  • The next plebiscite, which the US House approved last year but the Senate did not, would be the fourth time the colony of the United States, a US territory since 1898, will vote on its political status. In 1967, 60.7% of Puerto Ricans chose Commonwealth or Associated Free State status (established in 1952), while 39% chose statehood, and 0.6% chose independence. The 1967 plebiscite had a voter turnout of 66%. In 1993, 48.6% voted for Commonwealth status, 46.3% for statehood, and 4.4% for independence. The turnout in 1993 was 74%. In 1998, 0.06% chose Commonwealth, 0.59% chose Free Association (think the Cook Island’s relationship with New Zealand), 46.49% chose statehood, 2.54% chose independence, and 50.3% chose NONE OF THE ABOVE. The 1998 turnout was 71%.
  • The 1998 results were an anomaly because the pro-Commonwealth party, the Popular Democratic Party (PPD) recommended to choose the NONE OF THE ABOVE option to its members as a form of protest since it felt that the criteria set forth by the then ruling pro-statehood party, the New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico (PNP) was seen as unjust.
  • In 1991, Puerto Ricans voted on constitutional amendment referendum that, if passed, would have added an amendment to the Puerto Rican Constitution that allowed the following points (source): “the inalienable right to freely and democratically determine Puerto Rico’s political status; the right to choose a dignified, non-colonial, non-territorial status not subordinate to plenary powers of Congress; the right to vote for three alternatives; the right that only results with a majority will be considered triumphant in a plebiscite; the right that any status would protect Puerto Rico’s culture, language and identity, and continued independent participation in international sports events; the right that any status guarantees the individual’s right to American citizenship.” The referendum failed, 53% against and 47% in favor.

So now that you have the history of this politically charged debate (it has basically been the respective rallying cry between the PPD and the PNP), I still say this: In today’s America, a place where anti-Latino sentiment towards illegal immigrants and legal citizens has never been stronger, why would Puerto Rico, a proud country with ties to both the United States and Latin America, want to become the 51st state? Even if it did (and the current governor Luis Fortuño is a strong advocate of statehood), the America we know today would never welcome it.

Want proof? Let the videos talk. The first video is a Republican response to the House bill that passed last year that approved the next plebiscite. This video was produced BEFORE the House voted on its passage.

Ok, so you know have the facts, right? No? Then let’s have FOX NEWS’ Glenn Beck explain it to you. These videos were aired on Beck’s radio and TV shows the days before the passage of the House bill.

The newest expert on Puerto Rican politics

From his radio show:

Beck takes that radio message (and don’t get me started on its ignorance and misinformation) to his TV show the very same day. Hope you like the blackboards. Here is clip 1:

In clip 2, Beck continues:

So, you got it, class? You have everything you need? Like I tell my pro-statehood family members and friends, Glenn Beck’s America does not care nor does it want Puerto Rico as a state. If it were to become one, Puerto Ricans might as well be illegal immigrants in Arizona.

Kind of makes you long for the days of Ronald Reagan, doesn’t it?

To my fellow Puerto Ricans, stop believing the hype. Yes, we are proud. We are proud to be Puerto Ricans. And we are proud to be American citizens. We have defended the United States in wars since 1917. Yet, now in Glenn Beck’s America, where Tea Parties and Minutemen lead to senseless killings (see Brisenia Flores) and blatant racism, we will not be welcome in the US. Let us choose our own destiny: either free association or independence. The politics of the last 60 years are over in Puerto Rico. It is time to forge a new future that will truly set us free.

688 Responses

  1. Glenn Beck is a ridiculous but harmful cartoon character. He is so afraid of Puerto Rico but he doesn’t really know why. He just knows that he’s supposed to hate Latinos and other minorities.

    It seems sad that he admitted to only hearing of the bill the day before. That shows how ignorant he is of politics and the actual political structure of the country.

    • You are telling me? And what scares me is his influence in “educating” other Americans.

      • So what is Glenn afraid of? He is just trying to create controversy to build up his rating.
        He doesn’t know anything at all about PR. He needs some researchers to try to put him up to date, wow! that really makes him an expert on Puerto Rico’s matters. He needs a reality check and stop having opinions about things he don’t know. He is just a show man, bla bla bla, entertainment. He wants to know the truth, come and live with us, thats if he can take the heat…and talk to us face to face about his political realism joke.

      • Republicans the same Republicans as our esteemed governor will never allow for PRico to be a state. But good luck. I would rather go with free association

    • i dont knoiw all the politcs, but i know this. my mom was from puerto rico, but she came here to the usa for a better life, so did her siblings. on a recent trip to pr, aside from the grand hotel and pool and ocean, i was sickened to see a poor, unkempt, depressed land. and…. the animals… the starving lose dogs and cats. i found 2 starving kittens and brought them to a vet to be put down. so before you defend pr ,start questioning your moral turpitude on the subject of the cats and dogs. its the lack of caring.get going and do something.

      • Ok, there are many organizations in PR that do good. As for our status as a nation, that is the issue here for us here.

      • Cathleen. I to am Puerto Rican, and I must say I was so saddened by what I saw. It was so bad, I brought a Sato back. I have no desire to go back to see the sadness.

      • on April 18, 2012 at 7:33 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Julito; everyone here knows the problem we have with the stray animals that run in packs. Most of the dogs are just hungry and to weak to be dangerous but some attacks have been reported. The bigger question is, if the government of Puerto Rico cannot control the animal population, how well will they govern the island?

      • Elect new leaders. Stop the PNP/PPD dominance.

      • U can thank the United States for creating such poor conditions on the island. If it want for my father moving to NYC, for the same reason, I would have been born ON THE ISLAND.


      • What part of your comments are not possible in America in any of our Great Metro cities? None. I was born and raised in Chicago and I am Puerto Rican but you went and tell this story and it now sums up the situation as you saw it. No. Puerto Rico’s major issue is that of every other major city, Crime due to drugs and the availability of work. Hand out help no one and today they handouts to Puerto Rico by are great nation does not help it in the long run.

  2. I am for a Puerto Rico Libre but i fear unless the island stands up and protest it will never happen.

    Puerto Rico has the potential to be self sustaining. If the US did not force PR to cell its government control communication hub. Puerto Rico would be well on its way to become financial independent.

    The process for Puerto Rico’s self determination so start now.

    IF it were to become a state, god forbid, it would be poorest state in the union, industry would pack up and leave, the flood of illegal immigration would sky rocket out of control and etc…

    The only upside to becoming a state would be the increase in Latino representation in the US government which we know forces in this country are struggling against.

    • Gil, your comments are dead on, in my opinion. Thanks for posting, hermano. Go Philly!

    • I feel so sorry you, apparently you never ate your veggies as a kid and you ended with unrepairable brain damage.
      there isn’t one valid point in your comment. so lets begin from the top.

      1Puerto rico self sustainable: the idea is just pure comedy, have you been in the island lately ? have you noticed that the food stamps and unemployment lines are the longest island wide? puertoricans are just too comfortable doing nothing and is understandable they move to a project and they pay $1.00 water, $12.00 electric, negative rent “they get paid for living there” but if they get a job they have to pay rent and they get food stamps and their welfare removed. oh hell no! there is no way that people with those lifestyles with a 16.8% unemployment rate would ever do something other than watching tv novelas.

      2. becoming a state would make us poor.
      ok this is where i lost it and i just couldnt breath from laughing so hard, because you just cant be serious. the island is already fuck up and if it wasnt for welfare, food stamps, etc… there youl be 8 times the ammount of hobos at trafic lights asking for money.. think about that.

      3. ilegal imigration.
      really it would skyrocket? you should take a stroll down bario obrero in san juan because they are already here and they will keep coming no mater what. at least they are trying to do something for them and push forward not ending stuck like 90% of puerto ricans that simply dont care about trying because they just had it too easy.

      4. increasing the latino representation. geez far as i know the island is in the Caribbean not in latin america…

      this is all besides the fact that i cant even understand “independentistas bullshit” because yeah they are all about a free puerto rico,. ohhhh but how do they love the once again prior mentioned. foodstamps, unnemployment benefits, mc donalds, gap and everything that comes from usa yet they can hate the main land so much..

      Is kinda of a ridiculous witch hunt dont you think Mr. Puerto Rico libre…

      • Thanks for your comments. But the political reality is that the United States and its current political climate will never allow for PRico to become a state. You can give me all the amazing and classy reasons you list here, but 19 billion dollars to run Puerto Rico as a state is money that the US does not have right now. The point is that PR IS TOO MUCH DEPENDENT on Papi USA and guess what, the aid is being cut. So, the colonial dependency will also hurt us even more. So keep defending the current status quo system, which as you admit yourself, is not working. Your logic makes no sense. Sorry.

      • When a child is born and that scream of life is clear, you can never denie that the birth took place. You may try to hide it, but for how long? That said, now you have a clear picture of what happened to Puerto Rico. The Nation of Puerto Rico was born on Sept 23, 1868 (El Grito de Lares) a few days later spanish military forces violently and without mercy attacked and reoccuppied the Provincinal Capital (Lares) and the whole Nation for an additional 29 years. At which time(09 May 1897) another criminal act of invasion and occupation by the north american empire “The United States of America” occurred. Puerto Rico had attained an agreement(The Autonomuos Charter of 1897) from Spain for an end to the occupation and The Kingdom of Spain was concered about other European powers intent on invading and occuppying Puerto Rico. So to avoid this, Spain’s Military was training The Puerto Rican Militia (known as Los Macheteros) to take responsibilty for the Nations defense and Spain already had Puerto Rico’s postal & monetary system in place and running by the time a criminal’s bombs (U.S Navy) were striking innocent Puerto Rican Citizens In the capital of SanJuan. Spain was forced at gun point to cede Puerto Rico to the U.S., which was a violation of international law; because of the Autonomous Charter of 1897. The world was not too concerned, since it was in a great mess. That mess would lead to WWI approx. 20 years later. The U.S. gets involved in that war and decides that in order to deplete the population of Puerto Rican men it would place them in the front lines. However, Puerto Ricans were not U.S. citizens, so they could not be conscripted. Not a Problem that Mr. Jones couldn’t fix with the “Jones-Shafrot Act” of March 2, 1917. Fastforward to 1950 when the U.S. was pressured by the United Nations to resolve the colonial problem of Puerto Rico, a constitution was created in the U.S for Puerto Ricans to vote “yes or no ” , there was no option for Puerto Ricans to vote in favor of ending the U.S occupation and to become an Independent country again so that Puerto Ricans could control their own destiny. Infact the yes or no vote was a way to hold on to the colony long enough to out last that generation of Puerto Ricans who favored Independence by an over whelming majority of 99%. Puerto Ricans did what any people would do for freedom and revolted to end the occupation and to restore it’s Independence. The U.S. responded violently with an army airborn division using machine guns and aircorp bombers to destroy the provincinal Capital of the 2nd Republic which was declared in the town of Jayuya by the Puerto Rican People on Oct 30, 1950 using ham radios and brodcasting to the world for recognition & help. For the 1st time the Puerto Rican flag was flying in Puerto Rico; for a few days anyway. Many Puerto Ricans were killed, thousands were jailed, some for at least 10 years, and tens of thousands were systematically forced to leave thier country for the U.S. to survive (like my parents) in that the U.S. was moving fast in establishing a “Dependent Puerto Rico”. Making sure that Puerto Ricans would not be able to feed themselves by converting farm land into recreational land like golf courses and creating a stigma of low self esteem. Fastforward to 2012 and Puerto Ricans are as proud as ever of thier Nationality & Identity around the world. Even Puerto Ricans like me, born & reared in the United States, having served in the Armed Forces of the United States; I have always told people in places like Japan and Korea that I am a proud Puerto Rican because my parents instilled in me my National heritage of “Puerto Ricaness”. Four hundred years of culture & identity is not loss, to the contrary we are more Puerto Rican than ever before. We have even sent “voting members” to the U.S. Congress who will make sure that any attempt to eradicate the international identity of the Puerto Rican Nationality from the face of this earth will not occurre. Despite the oppres-sion, aggression, economical & political rape of Puerto Rico by the United States there is no hate. We now have children, grand children and great grand children who are the result of this unholy and unfortunate relationship we know as “COLONIALISM”, but we must turn the page and move on. To do that, I believe that I will see the day when the President of the United States will apologize to the People of Puerto Rico (as Pres. Reagan did to Japanees Americans) and will explain to the American People that we must right a wrong of 114 years. By ending the occupation and restoring Puerto Rico to it’s place in the world among free nations as “The Republic of Puerto Rico”. God Bless America.

      • Wow, thanks so much for that comment!

      • Yadi, your comments show complete and total ignorance of Puerto Rican history. Please read some books before you make stupid comments. You sound like many self-hating Puerto Ricans on the island who think dependancy was a self-imposed condition. For your information, decades of an almost complete domain from the Americans have developed a psychological dependence in a large sector of the Puerto Rican people. Trade almost totally controlled (98%) by the United States merchant navy, one of the most expensive in the world, creates even more dependence on the American goods. American companies control Puerto Rican domestic trade almost completely.

        The United States fiscal policy conditions set up strong controls through federal funds containing strict specifications and criteria of use. The federal government points out that said control is necessary to prevent government corruption, but the truth is that said policies create a strong dependence between the recipients of those funds and the government. Puerto Rico receives a huge amount of federal funds that promote a strong feeling of dependence in the citizens of the Free and Associated State, towards the United States of America´s federal government and postpone the development of autonomic political powers. So Yadi, Puerto Rico is fucked up thanks to American policy-no self-respecting human being prefers food stamps, unemployment, etc but if the US took our jobs, our self-respect, our agriculture, our independance and ramed all this shit down our throats, what the hell do you suggest Puerto Ricans do? Viva Puerto Rico libre y viva el puertorriqueno que se toma el tiempo para educadarse acerca de su historia y la verdad de la destruccion causada por los EE UU en Puerto Rico.

      • on September 27, 2012 at 4:39 pm Puerto Rico Independiente

        @ Yadi.

        1. Puerto Rico can be self sustainable. But, how can PR establish economic development plans for exterior commerce or if it’s government lacks legal personality and therfore is prevented from making commercial treaties with other nations? Federal transfer payments also prevent the development of a work culture. El MANTENGO es el que nos mata. Here, do some reading:

        2. Same as answer as #1 and… I don’t want to be part of the US until there is a serious SERIOUS Welfare reform.

        3. Ilegal immigration. It is true people from the DR are and would keep coming at the same rate.
        90%??? Get your numbers straight and talk with facts.

        4. WTF?? Do you know what Latinamerica even means? Latin, meaning speaks language of latin descent. Americano, meaning from the Americas and the geopolitically the Caribbean is considered a subregion of North America (and no, North America isn’t just the US, it’s also Canada and Mexico).

        I’m a puertorican born in San Juan. Living in Puerto Rico my whole life. I like the US. It’s a nice place. But I like even more my island and would love to see her blosom and prosper on her own. Being independent absolutely does not mean Gap and McDonalds will be taken away. And WTHell, if they are, I think we are better off without them.
        I have never received food stamps, unnemployment benefits or study grants or any of the sort. I am middle class. I would love for and encourage people to start their own business, rescue agricultural economy and not depend on Federal aid. Federal Transfer Payments, in my opinion, are not as helpful as one might think. They create cronic dependancy. They create leech countries. I don’t want to be a leech, I want to be a fucking tiger. Boom.

      • on September 27, 2012 at 4:41 pm Puerto Rico Independiente

        Here’s the reading I accidently left out…

  3. Glenn Beck and your Utah guest are a little off when you say that PR has all the benfits and do not pay for it. First, many of us who are federal employees pay taxes. Second, the four plebisits made Jason made reference to were not a clear manifest of the mayority of the residents of PR. We are US citizens and before you say no to the people of PR, first align your ducks in a row and get the facts straight.

    • Thanks for the comment. I respectfully disagree. My point here is that Glenn Beck’s America will never allow PR to become a state. As for federal employees paying taxes, even worse. Then they are truly second-class American citizens. Imagine American taxpayers not being able to vote for President or have a voting representative in Congress. That is truly TAXATION without REPRESENTATION.

      As for getting my facts straight, feel free to disprove me. For example, pro-statehooders such as yourself claim California has two official state languages. The California Constitution says English only.

      Keep dreaming. If you think our esteemed Republican governor has the power to change US policy on Puerto Rico, you don’t know what is going on in the US today.

      Gracias por tu comentario.

      • By the way, have you made a research on Glenn? When did he served his country? His biography is very interesting…Sorry but I don’t waste my time on these persons. Get a respectable person…


      • Umm, Edgar, Glenn Beck is one of the most influential media personalities in the world. He makes La Comay look like a Muppet. Please, you are more than welcome to post on my page, but don’t insult my intelligence, mano. FYI: Wikipedia articles are suspect.

    • By the way, I am a Democrat. Glenn Beck is an ignorant racist.

  4. on March 12, 2011 at 7:44 pm | Reply Luis Mamao Flojuño

    Lo que queremos es vivir del cuento sin pagar contribuciones federales. Que nos den muchos chavos y muchas ayudas.

  5. Julio with all due respect, there is only one America. Glen Beck and the Tea Party can think whatever they want after all we live in a free country, and everyone is entitled to their opinion about Puerto Rico, and our quest for political self determination.

    The important thing is that Puerto Rico has been a colony since 1493. It is time for the island to choose between Statehood and Independence. And for the fellow US citizens in the mainland to accept if the US citizens in Puerto Rico, choose to be a state, because those fellow US citizens in Puerto Rico have the right to be fully integrated into our nation regardless of them being Latino. Because at the end of the day, WE are all US citizens.

    That said , this is a matter for Congress and the territory of Puerto Rico to discuss, and if the current governor does celebrate the plebiscite and the majority does choose statehood, Congress will have to deal with this. It won’t be easy. The last two states admitted into the Union had to wait a long time before they were truly incorporated territories, but at the end of the day, their tenacity won out. And if the people of Puerto Rico choose statehood and they want to implement the Tennessee Plan, to take a short cut, then Congress will have to deal with that and the rest of America will have to accept it, just like they did with Hawaii and Alaska.

    And by the way, Hawaii is a state with both English and Hawaiian as official languages. Mm, just like Puerto Rico is currently a territory with both English and Spanish as official languages. Just like other territories: American Samoa (Samoan and English) Guam (Chamorro and English) Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian)

    More to the point there is no official language in the United States. English is the de facto national language but there is no official language at Federal Level. So it could be argue that Puerto Rico wouldn’t need to have the English only imposed. After all there are several states with no official languages and where the de facto languages are recognized, like Louisiana (English and French legally recognized, although there is no official language) (1974)
    Maine (English and French both de facto) New Mexico (English and Spanish both de facto)
    And by the way, you shouldn’t believe the hype surrounding SB 1070. Here is the link to SB1070 for you to read for yourself. I read this, since I was born in Arizona and I wanted to know what the state was doing about the Illegals. Which are breaking Federal law by being illegally in our country. It is not a bill against Latinos, no matter what the media and people like Shakira feel the need to say. So here you go: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf You will notice that the bill talks about Illegal Aliens, and does not specify that they will be stopping people just because they look latino. But I will gladly debate this point in any other post about Arizona that you publish.

    • Lyn, a few points. First of all, thanks for the comment. Here goes:

      1. You fail to mention a very critical time in the history of Puerto Rico. That is, 1897, when Puerto Rican political leaders were cleared to be granted Autonomy by the Spanish Crown. They were granted and were set to have elections in June, 1898, but then the US invaded (yes, invaded) Puerto Rico and the rest is history.

      2. To say there is only one America is politically naive. America is at a major crossroads, the fight between left, right, and Tea Party will only intensify in 2012. Just look at Madison.

      3. There is a major lobbying effort to make English the official language of the United States. If the supporters of this bill get political access (which, right now, is very likely), good luck with that.

      4. The Puerto Rican Democracy Act is a dead bill in Congress. It died in the Senate. There is no plebiscite now or in the near future, and even if Fortuño calls for a status question on the island, it is still non-binding issue. We are still dependent on having the United States ACCEPT us in the Union. We can’t determine that fate.

      5. Our esteemed governor is a Republican darling right now. And he is being mentioned as a viable VP candidate. That means he would need to move to the mainland before his term runs out in 2012.

      6. As for Arizona, ha! There is law and there is perception of the law. Google Shawna Forde. Yah, American Latinos are not getting killed in Arizona.

      Keep drinking the Fortuño Kool Aid.

      Thanks for the comment.

      • on October 24, 2012 at 7:21 pm GrandAmericanPatriot

        Dear Julio Ricardo Varela

        Do you know what there is such hatred for Latin Americans in the United States and how the blame falls on your shoulders and not ours. Here are some of the many reasons why many Americans in the United States dont feel any form of brotherhood and why many of us would like to see many of you people gone from our country and return to Latin America where you will not be able to use the excuses such as racism, bigotry, prejudice and discrimination for your failures.

        Exploding Population.

        Here are some of the cold hard facts on why I believe and many other Americans like me think that there are TOO MANY Latin Americans in the United States as it is and why it is necessary to send most of them back across the Rio Grande. The combined population of Latin Central America (Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama) is about 42.907.113 people. The Hispanic and Latino American populaiton of the United States is about 50.477.594 people. What is wrong with this picture. I can tell you what is wrong with this picture is the fact the United States a non Hispanic and Latino country has a populaiton of Hispanic and Laitno Americans greater than the COMBINED 7 Latin Central American Nations. There are about 7.570.451 people of Hispanic and Latino American ancestry living in the Anglo United States then Hispanic and Latino populaiton of ALL of Latin Central America. Dont you find this a very disgracefull and humiliating fact, If I was a proud Hispanic and Latino I would be ashamed of this fact. Here is another shamefull fact on the exploding populaiton of Latin Americans in the United States because mainly of illegal immigration and the birth of their anchor babies. Lets look at the populaiton of Mexico and the population of Mexicans living in the United States. The populaiton of Mexico is about 112.336.538 people. The population of Mexicans living in the United States is about 32.093.967 people. This is another shamefull and pathetic fact that all Mexicans should be saddend by. The Mexican population in the United States reprsents like 28.5% of the populaiton of Mexico. These facts clearly states that this is not immigration of Hispanics and Latinos from Latin America into the United States but a clear and present INVASION. How would you Latin Americans like it if millions of Anglo Americans flooded into Latin America and started to get so big that they would be like 30% of the populaiton of all nations in Latin America and were on their way to threaten the national demographics, cultures, languages, traditions and customs of Latin America. No you would not like it one bit and would fight back to defend your national demographics, language,s, traditions and customs. You would not tollerate such an INVASION. Here is another humiliating fact on rapid and uncontrolled over population of Hispanics and Latinos in the United States. In 1970, Hispanics and Latinos comprised 4.8% of the population of the United States, fasforward to 2010, Hispanics and Latinos comprise 16.4% of the poipulaiton of the United States. Are you getting a picture on why their is such anti immigrant and anti-Hispanic and Latino sentiment in the United States or are you blind and deaf to realise that. I feel it is necessary to restore the 1970 demographics when Hispanics and Latinos represented 4.8% of the populaiton. This means that the number of Hispanics and Latinos living in the United States should be reduced from 50.477.594 people to 14.956.412 people. This means that 35.521.183 Hispanics and Latinos in the United States must be deported back home to Latin America. We in the United States have every right to protect our national demographical Anglo majority and our English language, customs, traditions and cultures.

        Criminal Street Gangs

        Ever since the Hispanic and Latino peoiple keep on flooding into the United States like how Huricane Katrina flooded New Orelans in 2005 and how sea water flooded intto the Titanic after it an Iceberg and sank in 1912, has led to the importation into and or creation of some of the worst criminal street gangs in the United States today by both illegal aliens and their anchor babies and legal immigrants from Latin America.

        Here is a list of criminal street gangs that I have mentioned who were imported into or created inside the United States by Latin American people and who have continued to terrorize our streets, murder our people and turn whole neighbourhoods into crime and lawlesss third world ghettos like you would find in Quito Ecuador and San Salvador El Salvador like East Los Angeles and Spanish Harlam New York City.

        01)Mexican Mafia (Mexican)
        02)Nuestra Familia (Mexican)
        03)Surenos (Mexican)
        04)Nortenos (Mexican)
        05)La Raza Nation (Mexican)
        06)Spanish Gangster Disciples (Mexican)
        07)Bario Azteca (Mexican)
        08)Los Zetas (Mexican)
        09)Sinaloa Cartel (Mexican)
        10)Gulf Cartel (Mexican)
        11)Tijuana Cartel (Mexican)
        12)Juarez Cartel (Mexican)
        13)Mara Salvatrucha 13 (El Salvadorian)
        14)Mara Salvatrucha 18 (El Salvadorian)
        15)Medellin Cartel (Colombian)
        16)Cali Cartel (Colombian)
        17)Dominicans Don’t Play (Dominican)
        18)Jheri Curls (Dominican)
        19)Trinitarois (Dominican)
        20)Maniac Latin Disciples (Puerto Rican)
        21)Netas (Puerto Rican)
        22)Ghetto Brothers (Puerto Rican)
        23)Latin Kings (Puerto Rican)
        24)Latin Eagles (Puerto Rican)

        Here is an amazing fact on the demographics of criminal street gangs in the United States, 46% are Latin American, 34% are African American, 12% are European American, 6% are Asian American and 2% are Other American. For the source of this informaiton read “Into the Abyss: A personal journey into the woirld of street gangs: Topic 4: the racial and ethnic composistion of gangs: By Mike Carlie PHD”. Dont you find this shocking and upsetting that while Hispanics and Latinos comprise 16% of the total populaiton of the United States they comprise 46% of the population of it’s criminal street gangs. In find this very appaling that nearly 50% of the total criminal gangster populaiton of the United States is mainly comprised of illegal aliens, anchor babies and legal immigrants from Latin America. Tell me son. When we Americans migrate to Latin American countries do we import our criminal street gangs like the African American Bloods and Crips and or the European Nazi Lowriders and Aryan Brotherhood and in order to terrorize the Latin American people in their own cities and to transform whole neighbourhoods to resemble the likes of Watts and Compton. The Answer is not just NO but HELL NO.

        Hate Groups

        Lets be honest here when dealing with Latin Americans shall we and not be so polically correct. Because of lax immigration rules and failure to defend our borders from the tsuanmi of Latin Americans into the United States which is very similiar to the December 24th 2004 Tsuanmi which devastated and destroyed counries around the Indian Ocean like Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand in which killed 300.000 people and the March 11th 2011 which devastated and destroyed Japan and killed 30.000 people, has been the creation of some of the most rabid anti-American hate groups that we have ever seen which have been created inside or have been imported into the United States by ungrateful, arrogent and insolent Latin American people. I am talking about such groups as La Raza, MECHA, Mexica Movement and Brown Berets who has it in their plan to restore Mexican control over the American SouthWest to create a mythical Aztlan state and to expell or exterminate non Hispanics and Latinos in the American SouthWest. This is disgusting and very unceptbale for the Hispanic and Latin American people who because of their incompetence have transformed their nations into poor lawless backward 3rd world banana republics and are flooding into our country and doing the same to us. The United States should not accept this and should outlaw Aztlan ideology, ban these treasonous and sedious groups and if need be round up all their members and supporters and deport them back to Mexico. How would Hispanics and Latinos feel if Anglo American immigrants were to go to Mexico and import the likes of the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Nations would would then spout of that Mexico belongs to us white Anglo Americans and would support an invasion by the United States to gain control over Mexico and to either deport or exterminate its people. The Mexican people would go beserk and crazy if this happend and would fight back. This has not hapend because we Americans show our respect and we are on our best behavior when we go to Latin America but you Latin Americans are the complete opposite in the United States. The best way to stop this from happening is to stop all immigration from Latin America, to deport 10’s of millions of Latin Americans back home to Latin America and to build a Korean Style de-militarized zone between the United States and Mexico.


      • on October 24, 2012 at 8:22 pm larroyo@ymail.com

        So your point is to deny statehood & ethnically cleanse 4million Americans in Puerto Rico,because youre pissed of at mexican( not hispanic, MEXICAN) illegals! The fact is that what you call 30,000,000 hispanics are really 30 million Mexicans, who thanks to TED KENNEDY’S SCHEME (don’t blame us! An Irisman Betrayed you Anglos!!) To Guarantee permanent Democrat Majorities by Diluting the Anglo Majority. This conspiracy by that self hating Democrat PLUS 15 -20 million aborted innocent WHITE BABIES (in adition to 4-8 million Aborted African American babies) = a dwindling english speaking majority.

        Blame a selfish Anglo ( some would say jewish )culure of Hollywood that portrays babies as pissing upward to the parents faces, children as nothing more that dead weight upon your freedoms to “travel the world” or ” do what I want” “free sex” “families hold you back”. Bascally a selfish mememe. ME culture that dehumanizes the family. Millions of white women have not married , they are now in their thirties and most will never be moms. If anglos had normal sized families (THREE CHILDREN), instead of buying a 15 room McMansion with rooms dedicated to pianos, Victorian era living room, French aristocratic dining room, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. You would not need to worry about other populations catching up.

        Do you know why The Irish, Polish, Italians, Jews, Greek, Russian,Armenian Immigrants assimilated, despite almost overwhelming the white (native white nee- Anglo founding) stock?

        Well, yes the 1924 national quotas and origins act stopped immigration, but a key ingredient is missing today…..An Anglo Population reproducing to assimilate the newcomers. As we all know from the doowop era 1940- 70 transition to rock & roll, & the movie Goodfellas….Italian catholic boys dated & wed Jewish girls……whom dated Irish guys…who married polish chicks…..THE MELTING POT.

        I DON’T SEE HISPANICS INCLUDED IN THE MELTING POT, Its happening. 45% of PUERTO rican Americans (including myself) are married to non hispanic whites. Yet This isn’t celebrated!! Its not PC, and goes against the hopes of multiculturalists for balkanizing America into niche Democrat voting blocks. 30% of Mexican Americans are marrying white Americans, yet La Raza ignores this. The Media ignores it, giving passive mention on page 56 in the paper.. And like you said, Mexican Americans are far outnumbered by Immigrants and illegals. Yet your whole “deport them all mentality is both unfair and Dilutes your credibility.

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • If the facts, as stated by GrandAmericanPatriot are true, then it kind of puts things in a very sobering perspective.

      • on October 24, 2012 at 8:47 pm larroyo@ymail.com

        body {word-wrap: break-word; background-color:#ffffff;}Everything he said about gangs is true, As an AmeRICAN,I see where he’s coming from, yet as a hispanic, I found the comparison between central America’s (not really a continent,but an extension of the North American Continent ,along with the Carribean basin.)  Population and America’s hispanic population unfair.    * Its unfair to add up Small central American countries up to come up with the US’s Latino population.  Those countries have a few millon at the most. (Ufortunately it seems all their gangs are represented!) In the US.    I can play the same game with Ireland. Ireland has about 6 million people.(that evil Brittish potato famine genocide almost worked) YET, 20,000,000 Americans have Irish lineage. Including Famous historical and present Puerto Ricans, such as Deborah Carthy deu, Cayetano Coll y Toste, Jose Miguel Class, Victoria Justice……..Anyway you get the point.  Someone else can tell you that western nordics in the US are way more than NW Europe.Its more accurate to pinpoint the Mexican (illegal population) in the US, which disgracefully outnumbers the Mexican AMERICAN population.  This was planned by democrats to upset the majority & replace it with a plurality of racial groups fighting for whatever the democrats want to dish out for votes.Did you know that while Immigration is easy for for Mexico and Central & most of Central America, (mestizo & amerindian)…..Immigration Restrictions are still in place against Argentina, Chile, Uruguay,Brazil, Costa Rica, Spain&Portugal(in Europe) ????  What do they have in common that disqualifies them from having the “free pass to the US?”  Why weren’t these Hispanic Nations given the same open quotas s say….Mexico?ANSWER…..They have white majorities.  In Brazil’s case, nonwhite Brazilians get preference!!         The fix is in!   Republicans (my party) are scared shit about not getting the latin vote!Democrats are sitting back and riding the ethnic tidal wave in!!All I can say for preserving the Anglo Majority is, encourage hispanics to take part in American civics, and have enough babies to replace yourselves.Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • What I took away from GrandAmericanPatriot’s statistics is the crime wave that is growing in America and that one day NO ONE will be safe. Like any gang if you don’t join them you will be punished. And even if you do join them your life will be hell anyways. There are many documentaries available showing the destruction that follows these gangs. If anyone thinks this is a win for their race they will be greatly disappointed. Gangs follow the drugs and unfortunately the US is being saturated with that garbage. With wealth comes opportunity for making money and gaining power. This situation is a lose-lose situation for everyone who just wants to live and let live. Very few news medias are taking this issue seriously. The border war is getting worse, and major crime organizations are not only infiltrating big cites but are now moving into smaller rural towns and offering up drugs to our children like candy. No one is immune to this disease.

      • on October 25, 2012 at 5:24 pm GrandAmericanPatriot

        Dear Larroyo

        I am huge supporter in the complete independence of Puerto Rico from the United States so that it can be transformed from the Commonwealth to a Republic. The fact remains is that both the United States and Puerto Rico are DIFFERANT in terms of national demographics, culture, heritage, traditions, customs, language, etc and should not be under the same roof. The time has come for the marriage between the United States and Puerto Rico to end in a divorce and go there own way. The island of Puerto Rico after gaining it’s independence should get together with their Laitn American cousins and form a Latin American Union that would be comprised of Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay, Bolivia, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico and maybe including Hati. I have many reasons for supporting the independence of Puerto Rico from the United States and here are some of them.

        Too Many Puerto Ricans in the United States.

        I believe that there are too many Puerto Ricans living in the United States and think that most of them should return to the island. You see the populaiton of Puerto Ricans living in the mainland United States is about 4.623.716 people. The population of the island of Puerto Rico is about 3.706.690 people. Again as I said in my last post, what is wrong with this picture. How can it be that the populaiton of Puerto Ricans living in the United States is larger than the populaiton of the island of Puerto Rico itself. The Puerto Rican populaiton of the United States has about 917.026 more Puerto Ricans then the populaiton of the homeland of the Puerto Rican people which is Puerto Rico itself. This unaceptable and disgracefull and the Puerto Rican people must be ashamed of themselves. How would Puerto Ricans like it if their island was flooded by millions of Anglo Americans whose populaiton would grow so large that in the end it would surpase the populaiton of Anglo Americans living in the United States itself. The Puerto Rican people would call this an INVASION and would fight back against this sort of thing. I believe and think that the populaiton of Puerto Ricans living in the mainland United States must be much smaller than the population of Puerto Ricans living in the island of Puerto Rico itsself. This is very fair and liberal in my oppion. The demographical population of Puerto Ricans in the United States must be returned back to it’s 1940 demographic which was before the flood of Puerto Ricans to the mainland. It is like how I believe that the Hispanic and Laitno American populaiton in the United States must be reduced from 16.3% of the populaiton (2010 Census) back down to 4.8% of the populaiton (1970 Census) before the mass invasion of criminal illegal alien invaders from 1970-Present Day. I am big supporter of the English as the official language movement which wants to make English as the official language of the United States and a big roadblock to this ever happeing is the island of Puerto Rico, as soon as we can jettison this island with it’s Spanish speaking populaiton will make it far easier to establish English as the official language and there will be no Press 1 for English and Press 2 for Spanish crap. The United States is an English country like Puerto Rico is a Spanish country. For Heaven’s sake their are neighhourhoods in New York City and Chicago where you dont hear any English and feel like you are in another country just like you see in places like Little Havana is populated by Cuban rejects who fled Cuba after the Communist Regime of the Castro Brothers siezed control over Cuba in 1959 and yet there are Cuban refugees who fled Cuba in 1969 and who settled in Little Havana and who to this day do not speak English and contine to speak Spanish. This is not right and so very wrong.

        La Reconquista Aztaln Puerto Ricans

        Here is one of the most important reasons why I support the independence of Puerto Rico is a chance for us Americans to rid the United States of a growing threat of La Reconuista Aztlan idelology which is not just infecting the Mexican immigrant community (Legal Immigrants and Illegal Aliens) but is also infecting other Latinos and Hispanics in the United States as well. A prime example is Puerto Ricans such as Geraldo Rivera (Fox New Host) and Luis Guiterrez (Illinois Representive D). These “Puerto Rican Americans” I hate calling them that are not loyal to the United States and do not want what is best for the nation but are only loyal to the Hispanic and Laitno community in the United States and they only want what is best for them and to tell with the rest. Geraldo Rivera and Luis Guiterrez are Latino and Hispanic Supremacist who believe in the Aztlan ideloogy which promotes the false claim that the SouthWest (California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona) belong to Mexico and this idelogy promotes the idea of a mythical Aztlan state which would be comprised of Mexico and the SouthWest and which only Hispanics and Latinos would be allowed to live it and would see the Anglo Americans, African Americans and Asian Americans either exterminated or deported from this area. Geraldo Riveria and Luis Guiterrez want to see the destruction of the United States by flooding it with Latin Americans through illegal immigration, open borders and amnesty which would lead to the Latinization of the United States and destroy the Anglo demographical majority and the English language, culture, traditions, heritage and customs which has made the United States a rich and powerfull country. It is clear that Hispanics and Latinos are a selfish people who do not have best interest of this country at heart and who show their contempt for the American people by moaning, crying and whining about any effort by Americans who want to secure the border and who want to deport the 10’s of millions of ilelgal aliens from Latin America and how much they suffer from racism, discriminaiton, bigotry and prejudice in the United States. Well I have a solution for all the Latin Americans in the United States and that include Puerto Ricans who feel this way, I say LEAVE and dont let the door hit you on the way out. I can assure the Latin American people who feel hated in the United States wont feel hated in Latin America because they will be amoungst their own people and will not be able to use racism, bigotry, discriminaiton and prejudice as an execuse for their failures. Most Americans will cheer if the 10’s of millions of crybabies and sour grapes in the Hispanic and Latino community in the United States where to pack their bags and return to Latin America and never come back. The American people are getting sick and tired of the bad behavior and the ungratefullness of the Latin American people and the truth is that we dont need or want them at all. The independence of Puerto Rico will be a major soluation to the likes of Geraldo Rivera and Luis Guiterrez. You see once the island of Puerto Rico is made an independent nation and is jettisoned by the United States will give the United States government a chance to strip the United States citizenship of treasonous and seditious Puerto Ricans living in the mainland. An independent Puerto Rico will be the death of the Jones-Shafroth Act which gave Puerto Ricans US citizenship. Once the Jones-Shafroth Act is abolished then the likes of Geraldo Rivera and Luis Guiterrez can and will be stripped of their US citizenship and deported back to the island of Puerto Rico where they and their loyalties belong, no matter if they were born in the United States. US citizenship was given to the Puerto Rican people by an Act of Congress and likewise the US citizenship can be taken away from the Puerto Rican people as well. I can assure you that one of the best days in American history is when the likes of Geraldo Riveria and Luis Guiterrez are put on an American Airlines flight and transported back to Puerto Rico will be a cause for celebration that would rival the 4th of July. We Americans can finaly be free from their moaning, complaining, crying and whinning all the time and no more of them spouting of La Raza BS. Maybee an independent Republic of Puerto Rico can elect Luis Guiterrez as it’s 1st president and Geraldo Riveria as it’s 1st vice president.

        Puerto Rican criminal street gangs

        Gangland Latin Kings

        Gangland Netas

        Gangland Maniac Latin Disciples

        Just watch these videos on Youtube to see what Puerto Ricans have done to the United States and if it was not for Puerto Rico being a colony and the Jones-Shafroth Act which gave United States citizenship to the Puerto Rican people then none of thse criminal street gangs would be terrorizng the United States and the American people in cities like New York City and Chicago which are being ruined and destroyed by these evil savages. The United States must not allow Puerto Rico to become the 51st state because more of these people would flood into the United States from Puerto Rico to cause more caos and mayhem. The authorities have failed to deal with this criminal threat and the best they can do is to arrest and imprison them which is very pathetic, shamefull and disgracefull. I say lets do better than just arresting and imprisoning these barbarians, why dont we stripp these thugs and gangsters of their United States citizenship and deport them back to the Island of Puerto Rico where they can terrorize their own people and let the Puerto Rican people deal with them and let us lawabiding and hardworking Americans in peace and quite with out having to fear of going to certain neighbourhoods. The sad fact is that Puerto Ricans and other Latin Americans fail to realise that where ever they go and settle these people come along too. We Americans are sick and tired of these foreign imported criminal gangs wrecking havock, we have our domestic native criminal gangs like the Bloods and the Crips to deal with with out having to deal with the likes of the Latin Kings, Netas and Maniac Latin Disciples who are not even Americans but are Puerto Ricans. Don’t refute me by saying that Puerto Ricans are US Citizens which is unfortantly true and here is the hypocrisy of the whole Puerto Ricans are US citizens though because at the same time Americans of non Puerto Rican ancestry are not considered Puerto Rican citizens are they. No they are not. I find it ironic that the most dangerous neighbourhood in New York City is Spanish Harlam and who makes up the majority of the populaiton of Spanish Harlam New York City, well the of course it is the Puerto Ricans and their closest cousins the Domincans sort of like how the most dangerous neighbourhood in Los Angeles is East Los Angeles which is made up mostley of Mexicans and Central Americans. Tell me Puerto Ricans when we Americans move down to Puerto Rico do we import our criminal street gangs like the Bloods and the Crips to terrorize the Puerto Rican people and to cause mayhem and caos in the likes of San Juean and to turn whole neighbourhoods into no go warzones were it is unsafe for Puerto Ricans to venture after night. The answer is NO. Once the island of Puerto Rico is either given it’s independence or votes for independendence from the United States will give the American people a chance to clean out Spanish Harlam of the likes of the Latin Kings and the South Side of Chicago of these charachters and reclaim these neighhourhoods from the likes of the Latin Kings, Netas and Maniac Latin Disciples.


      • Flyboy-Sigh. What are you DOING to rectify your situation??? I see you insulting Obama (“still blaming Bush blah blah”…yeah well it’s gonna take more than 4 years of Obama to erase EIGHT years of your precious Bush!), insulting Puerto Ricans and OUR island (“It’s shameful how we’re not bilingual”…yeah well I don’t see the southern states embracing being bilingual either…at least not officially), and NOW you assume that all gangs are Latinos when I didn’t see GrandPatriot include white supremeicsts, black domestic gangs or the infamous motorbike gangs that a few times needed the NATIONAL GUARD to keep them under control!!! And the gangs in Puerto Rico are mostly Dominican. I hated USA policies so I moved. What about you? When are you going to take your own advice and move your ass to some other Latino-bashing, Bush licking red neck state?!?! DO SOMETHING rather than talk smack all the time. You can’t and never will change OUR country of Puerto Rico. If you love the “American” dream and lifestyle, go back to the States!!! WE have every right to OUR culture, language, and history too so either get WITH it or get OFF it! You talk the talk but will never walk the walk.

        GrandPatriot-You sound EXACTLY like Royal Cavalier on Youtube. Are you him? He mostly brought up gangs too and I’ve seen you two use the EXACT same words. Funny how you criticzed me for trying to get into Mexican and Southern State business but you again supporting my views how whites are imperialsts feel the need to butt in in purely Puerto Rican business.

        FYI….there are too many Puerto Ricans on the ISLAND. This is what was told to me by my father and Puerto Ricans living there. Another reason why many Puerto Ricans aren’t that well off is because there aren’t enough reseources to go around as far as jobs and properties. “Too many Puerto Ricans in the States????” Hmmm…well I think there are too many WHITES in the States! That was all once Native American land. You’re all illgeals too. I don’t see you voting to kick YOURSELVES out! Typical white man thinking…”Oh I’m white and that was a long time ago so it doesn’t count and I’m entitled!” Well…give it a few years and soon this will all be “a long time ago” too. Seriously GrandPatriot, I didn’t see Puerto Ricans wipe out tribes and put the rest on reservations (in fact we’re the direct result of such colonization). So until that’s the white man’s fate too, cry me a damn river! Boo freaking hoo! You people have NO right to whine. You complain how many of us are living in the States while you’re COMPLETELY ignoring the VAST size difference! PR is about 3 times the size of Rhode Island and yet because there are about 1 million more of us in the States than on an ISLAND you think we should be “ashamed” or that something is “wrong”?!?! Um…yeah that’s what I mean about PR having too many people! 3 MILLION people living on a tiny island. OF COURSE some of them have to move somewhere else. How many people does large Alaska have? Not many. Are YOU ashamed of THAT? “How would we feel is whites surpassed our own population?” LOL…again…that DID happen. Especially in Argentina. And last I checked the white invading population FAR outpaced the Native American population so I guess now karma’s making a comeback, huh? Doesn’t feel too good, huh? Well too freaking bad because YOU people were the first to try conquer someone else’s land without caring how THEY felt and now that the shoe’s on the (rightfully) other foot you want US to cre about YOUR feelings??? I don’t see that happening.

        You complain about how only English is allowed and other such trash and you hate Puerto Ricans that want to stand up for their fellow Latinos…GO THE HELL BACK TO ENGLAND THEN!!! The USA is already technically illegal land that was forcefully and brutally taken away from its rightful owners. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU IS AN IMMIGRANT!!!! At least I’m in the land of half my ancestors being that the OTHER half of my ancestors’ land is being controlled by you white, entitled supremecists. And if Mexico wants to take back its land so what? GOOD is what I say. What the hell is wrong with being bilingual in the States?!?! The USA has NO official langauge.

        And again with the gangs…dude, how would YOU like it if everyone judged whites for THEIR gangs like the KKK and your motorbike gangs that had tobe subdued by the freaking NATIONAL GUARD!!! But when I mentioned this on You tube you (Royal Cavalier) said that “at least they’re not foreign”. See what I mean about your white imperialsm? They’re not foreign so what? They’re still just as dangerous! Do YOU want to be judged for THEIR actions?? And again I say that MOST the gangs in Puerto Rico are DOMINICANS.

        Do “whites bring down their gangs” to PR? No. But you do something just as bad. You bring down your white, snobbish, slave trade CEOs and their companies AND you bring down your white tourists that want to own our property, live and trash our land and yet try to tell US what to do! You people do thw same thing in Latin America by taking your companies there and taking advantage of the low standard of living and cheap labor they offer. How about you take every single white American company and drunk tourst and shove off too???! These companies and CEOS hurt the population more tha help because it’s mostly whites that reap the benefits. You white rich people start buying up our land and property and soon the Latin Americans are living like 2nd class citizens in their OWN country. Kinda like how we “infested” your cities, you DID infest ours! Now even in Latin America the whites are living in the good touristy neighborhoods while the natives live in the slums. So…point is: you can’t use us for one and not another. If you don’t want us to have a say, YOU shouldn’t get a say in our countries. If you don’t want us to be in “your” country, then take all the other white Americans that live in Latin America or PR (like Flyboy) with you!!! We don’t need his kind there either.

        “How would Latinos feel if we imported whites in Mexico…” LOL LOL LOL…I can see what kind of history they’re learning in the south. Dude…that DID happen. Mexicans ALLOWED you on their land with a mere two conditions: 1) Spanish stays the offical language (but notice how they didn’t ban English!) and 2) Catholic stays the official religion (yet Protestants could still practice freely) But then the Texans and other southern states wanted more and rebelled thus throwing the Mexicans’ kindness back in their faces!!!! The Mexicans DID go crazy (the Alamo) and try to win their land back and well…I’m sure you know what happened.
        My point is: it DID happen and you defended the USA’s action being a “patriot” and all so now that the shoes’ on the other foot and their trying to win their land back you call them “treasonous”?!?!?! Yup…I’m sure the Mexicans called the Texans that too. Well…I clap my hands as say, “Good luck, Mexico”. Manifest Destiny led you people to take land that wasn’t yours and Manifest Destiny will be the one to take you out. Karma is a universal force. They’re merely doing now what you did THEN. Not so happy now? Well, now you know how THEY felt. And lol…it’s gonna take A LOT more than merely cleaning up the foreign gangs in the inner cities to solves all the problems the inner cities have. Remember, the inner cities were bad even BEFORE the “imported” gangs. And those problems have to do with how federal funding is distributed. A school can’t be expected to do its job if it doesn’t have MONEY. But you Republicans continue to ignore these things and think “Oh It’ll fix itself” NOTHING fixes itself. Fix the inner cities and see how things change. The gangs are just ONE part of a HUGE list of problems. I should know. I was born in the Bronx, NY and my parents brought me to NJ because they knew NYC is no place to raise a family. At least we Latinos are trying to change the inner cities because we know what it’s like while you white picket fence people vote Republican because it’s for white rich people who don’t need anymore money to buy a silver rimmed car or throw their daughter a Super Sweet Sixteen. Fix the problems you CAN fix in the inner cities first and then watch how the youth stop heading for the streets in desperation. But don’t pretend that by kicking out foreign gangs will do anything to fix the real problems of the urban places.

        But in the end….I agree. I want NOTHING more to do with “whites only” USA. It was a nation born of treason (fight against England) yet call US treasonous for helping our mother countries, broken promises (to the Native Americans), war, genocide and immigration (yet resent non white immigrants). I was born and raised there and STILL it never felt like my country particullary because of YOU people. I wish day and night for my own people to realize this too one day. We CAN survive without you. And I hope one day we get the chance to prove it. And in that day, we’ll kick all you “seeking a profit” whites off ALL Latin American lands. Vacation somewhere else. Take your smog infested and slave labor comapnies somewhere else. Take your white drunk “no respect for the land or culture” tourists somewhere else. Find another minority to use and abuse. We won’t take your BS anymore.

    • Keep dreaming about Tennessee Plan. It is not going to happen.

      • I would have liked to have a nice and educated debate on these points, but I can see that with such comments as keep on drinking the Fortuno Kool aid, that’s not going to happen. I would just advise you to read further on the “invasion” and the actual status of Puerto Rico then.

        And about being accepted into the Union is always a problem for a new state to be accepted. Just review your American History. It’s not an easy task but it is achievable. Just read up on the last states admitted into the union.

        For the record, though I’m a Republican, I’m not a Fortunista. And further more, it’s naive to think that Shawna Forde represents everyone working on our borders. Just like there are people that take things to the extreme in the mainland, there are people in the island of Puerto Rico who do so as well. It’s called fanaticism. Remember Manson? No immigration law pushed him to attack people, he did because he was a murderer.

      • Excellent I welcome it too. Let’s do it. Do you want to write a guest blog post for me? Email me a blog with a counter-argument to juliorvarela@gmail.com

        Let’s do this!

    • A few things GrandAmerican Patriot-

      So…basically it’s ALL our fault and you hold NONE of the responsibility?! Wow….but then again judging by your username I’m not surprised at your bias. LOL…there IS racism, bigotry, and prejudice or do you somehow think everyone is oh so accepting of us?!?! OUR “failures”?! How about YOUR failures to live up to promises, changed policies, and politcal reform?!?!

      Ok. I see alot of numbers here that basically say what??? That you’re afraid because we’re growing?! Well…good. You should be. And why should we be ashamed if there are many LAtinos in the USA than in other countries?! Last time I checked the USA was a place for ALL immigrants! Are YOU ashamed that there’s a high population of what were once British people here?! Or what about the Irish?! The Italians and Germans?!?! But yet again you whites always zero in on Latinos and somehow try to force us to choose. Well guess what? When your ancestors stepped off the boat from England, Ireland or wherever the hell they were from did they suddenly become American overnight!?! Hell, no. Did they feel ashamed as their numbers started to grow in States and not England?! Oh…an “invasion” is it??! Much like the ACTUAL invasion of the colonies via “Manifest Destiny” into the West and south of what was once Mexico?! That was ok, right?! Ask the Mexicans if THEY felt invaded then! Now they’re taking back their lands…so what? Good for them. Karma’s a bitch.

      “How would we like it if Anglo-Americans flooded Latin America”???? HAHAHAHA! They DID, dude! Look at Argentina (where NAZIS flooded after WWII)! In fact, the whole reason any of us are ALIVE is because the white man decided he didn’t want to stay on his side of the ocean no more. Invaded us enough to LITERALLY WIPE OUT whole TRIBES of people including almost all of the other half of my ancestors, the Taino and put on reservations anyone who survived. Many people believed for a long time that they were long gone until studies showed that we Puerto Ricans actually have around 60% of their blood through our mDNA. So if anything YOUR kind’s the one that trashed the place! YOU set the example! If now we’re booming back, you wanna cry “foul!”??? Until the white man is either literally wiped out or put on reservations….you really have nothing to complain about. It’s a FAR better deal than our ancestors had! But go ahead Mr. “I-don’t any-history-before-the-Civil-War” and try to throw your weight around. Do YOU see why there’s so much “anti-American” and anti-white sentiment amoung US??? For people decended of immigrants to literally try to resent other immigrants no matter what race or ethnicity makes you guilty of the almighty H…hypocrisy. I bet your glad your ancestors left England or whatever, huh? But yet because lots of Mexicans and Latinos are “flooding” the States…suddenly you’re anti-immigrant??? Gods, help these fools.

      You wanna talk street gangs now??? Ok. How about the Bloods, Crips, KKK, Hell’s Angels, etc. and other DOMESTIC gangs and lawless bikers!!! Funny how no one ever mentions those weapon wielding, motor revving, dangerous biker gangs!!! I even heard once the NATIONAL GUARD had to come in and try to control Hell’s Angels! Many of your own domestic gangs are a BIG problem.

      And if the drugs are such a problem, why don’t you and your “true blue, but too good to be true” American friends quit BUYING said drugs???? There is no supply where there’s no demand. A MAJOR problem for the USA is that even domestic people in the inner cities are buying up these drugs thus giving the cartels a reason to try to expand. But look how many of your precious Tea Party are against legalizing marijuana here (and thus being able to tax it and build up domestic economy instead of relying on foreign drugs)! So…people go elsewhere for their sick kicks. Also…since again your party is out to destroy the poor and middle class but build up the rich…this happens: People are paid so little and must live on Welfare and THEN they meet “Shady rich person.” Shady rich person gives poor person some weed/crack. Poor person tries drug and likes it. Shady person tells poor person they made $5,000 in just one business deal. Poor person thinks, “That’s 1/3 of my salary already!” Shady person gets new mule. Badabing badaboom. Don’t you think that in order fix problems in the urban and inner cities you have to first oh…I don’t know FIX THE INNER CITIES!!!! These places keep getting their funding cut thanks to people like you! And at least there’s SOME revenue coming in despite the shadiness and violence. At least that’s how most people see it. So…you’ve got 2 choices: 1) Legalize marijuana so that the USA can tax and export its own supply OR 2) Start voting Democrat so that the funding and money can go to the people that NEED it and not already-super rich white people who just throw it away on 5 cars and Swiss banks. That money could go toward better schools, better youth centers to keep kids off the streets! But you Republicans will never connect the dots much less see them…and why you rail against problems you HELP create!

      Hate groups….Hehehehe. Oh, no no no. Dude… you do NOT want to go there. I repeat. You. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. GO. THERE. “Arrogant, insolent, ungrateful”??? Why? Because Hispanics are no longer taking anymore of your white supremict, self-entitled, hypocritical BULLSHIT anymore and our demanding our fair share?!?! Oh yeah…you get to live off your ancestor’s decision to cross an ocean but resent Latinos crossing the border??? And YOU don’t think YOU”RE benefitting off someone else’s hard work???? It’s not you people PERSONALLY fought the War of Independce or the Civil War for that matter yet why the HELL do you assholes act so self-entitled like “Oh yeah…we made this country!” No. WE ALL helped make this country. The USA is made up of Eruopeans, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos, etc. all who helped fight AND die (especially PR who gets drafted without voting for president) to make it what it is. If YOU get to benefit off a decision made hundreds of years ago, we ALL get that right!!! And we hate you because you bitch about US yet you go around acting like we somehow owe you something?!?!? Get the hell out of here, fool. YOU’RE the ungrateful ,hateful, arrogant, hypocritical, insolent, and racist bastards!!! Don’t you DARE ever forget who helped you shape this land!!! You wiped out nearly all of our people and yet complain about some drugs and gangs?!?!? Cry me a fucking river!!! Deal with it!!! WE had to. I hope you DO get wiped out and that we can finally take back our lands…see how YOU like it.

      “Mexicans would go crazy if this happened…” Probably, but the reason it hasn’t isn’t because you people are so “nice” (Hahaha! Yeah freaking right!) It’s because AGAIN…there’s a supply for drugs in the states. People are BUYING them. And these drugs don’t get taxed so…just like Mr. Millionaire…these drug lords seek a profit!!! And it’s quite a way for the poor to get rich because hey…if the white rich are taking advantage by avoiding taxes don’t you think the poor want to as well? Lucky you…that you didn’t actually have to suffer the harships of leaving an old world and going to a new. The ordeals of colonizing and suffering hard winters under the lamp light…To resent those that want a better life now…most of which aren’t even IN gangs or drugs and simply want the lowly jobs like gardening and constructions you people snub your noses at. What a shame…nope, not white imperialists at all….oh no.

      Hmmm….all Latinos are the same so I guess the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand are all the same too, huh? Don’t insult our Latino cousins but don’t lump us altogether either! End point: your arguments are completely invalid and is just ANOTHER lame attempt to disguise racism as some sort of patriotism. I hate you people.

      LOL…yes. ¡Viva Borikén Libre! And let’s stop too all immigration of white people and Americans to Latin America and prevent them from living cheaply, vacationing on our lands and setting up their black market and blood money companies!!!! So keep your drunken white tourists and corrupt fat cat CEOS!!!! Find your OWN land and people to abuse…

      • on October 25, 2012 at 7:08 am larroyo@ymail.com

        I’m gonna have to buy a laptop! This droid texting ain’t working! Accidently sent again! LOL.. anyway, Madison Grant’s “the passing of the great race” claimed that “while brave Nordics and Alpines fought Europe’s wars, the “swarthy” mediterraneans stayed home and “bred”. Other authors wrote that “Europe ended at the Pyrenees mountains”. (Implying that Spain and Portugal were not White people, but rather “mongrels”!

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • on October 25, 2012 at 7:35 am larroyo@ymail.com

        The Caucasian racial groups,…..

        * Nordic , Blonde shades, blue -green eyes, skin generally fair and peachy.  Some “Red” nordics( reddish pink complexion platinum hair).  (And they called natve americcans red,lol) * Alpine,  Central Europeans, Brown shades of hair, eyes green -hazel brown. Pale ,almost pasty complexions.  Round faces in combo with jet black hair and grey eyes (gothic complexion) also common.

        *****those two groups are 90% of white Americans*****

        Mediterranean white, The largest subgroup of the caucasian family, is the most diverse in variants.   Historically mixed with surrounding peoples around Europe’s frontiers,  they have Black or dark brown hair, hazel or brown & or black eyes, skin is sallow(olive),  tan, Light brown, dark brown depending on time of year. (Tans easily).  Spain,Portugal & light skinned Hispanics, South Italians, Greeks, Turks, Arabic people, north Africans, and non dravidian Hindi people.   With such a large variety, the Mediteranean race has always been targeted as an “extinct branch of the white race”,by racists who claim todays “mediterraneans” are not whites.  This viewpoint is of Brittish Origin, and was passed on to the US by its original English majority.  So to attack “whites” and say to leave South America, you are including millions of Latino whites as well, that is, unless you are black or native american hispanic w/no spaniard in you.

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • Yeah…the Nordic whites are feeling threatened now. Good. LOL..yeah…I heard about this new “Mediterraneans aren’t white” theory. Funny…how NOW they’re suggesting this new BS…how convienent. At a time when Latinos are on the rise, they now want to erase whatever white blood we have by claiming Spain and Portugal aren’t “white.”

        And in the end….the phenotypes might even be stronger than the genotypes! Example: My cousins are half Puerto Rican, half African-American. My aunt is a tanned Puerto Rican with balck culry hair and brown eyes. Her husband is a VERY light African-American (and was brought up in Chicago) with almost white skin, black hair and almost black eyes. My cousins are fraternal twins: one came out with blonde curly hair, white skin and blue eyes while the other has brown skin, brown hair and brown eyes. What race should THEY mark on the census? They share the EXACT same heritage yet came out looking COMPLETELY different. And my OTHER cousins are full Puerto-Rican yet came out blonde and light skinned. So…we can’t even always go by mere looks anymore…although people love to assume we’re all just brown.

      • on October 25, 2012 at 11:36 am larroyo@ymail.com


        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

    • all said and done, the departure of the southern command seal the deal. statehood is unachievable…

  6. on March 14, 2011 at 10:59 am | Reply william zegri

    There is no choice than to to go to the united nations and reclaim the imperial actions of USA toward PR and its colonial status.All parties should go together and ask for the termination of the colony.If not granted lets go to Spain again and ask for the integration of PR into the European union.

  7. on March 24, 2011 at 2:23 am | Reply Wilfredo Ramos

    La estadidad sera aprobada o rechazada cuando una mayoria del pueblo decida salir de la condicion territorial, lo mismo decian de los estados sureños de Nuevo Mexico, Texas y Luisianna, tres estados cultaralmente diferente al anglosajon, lo mismo sucedio con otros estados como Alazka y Hawaii, asi que no se puede decir que NUNCA aprobaran a PR como estado, solo es cuention de tiempo y ya veremos…

    • Sigue soñando. NO VA A PASAR. El siglo XXI en América no es el siglo XIX cuando EE UU estaba expandiendo su país.

    • When the kingdom of hawaii joined the US, Prince of Hawaii (name not sure) as resident commisioner, introduced the first statehood bill in 1900. It would take 50 years to be admitted into the union. despite racist comments against an “asian Jappanese” state. (actually they are mainly Polynesians,with a plurality of Puerto Rican, non latino whites, some Japanese, as well as American blacks.) If Hawaii overcame the super racism of that day, Puerto Rico should have an easier time. Second, even if current congress says no to PR statehood, so what? Try again at the NEXT Congress. Look at Tennessee, and Alaska/hawaii. Their statehood was rejected many times. they didnt give up. i believe DC tried the tennessee plan and failed. i believe it was because DC is the city of washington,second congress betted (and won) that blacks would not unite behind DC residents. sadly they didn’t. The 2 would be senators and lone congressman chickened out on arrest fears. (they were more concerned with keeping their high paying jobs as DC politicians rather than sticking to the cause!)as a result congress will never take DC seriously again. Puerto Rico is different,the size of Connecticutt with 4,000,000 American Citizens.

  8. Concuerdo contigo.

    Estados Unidos nos INVADIO. Y quien invade con bombardeos (Sanjuan y Guánica) no puede preguntar “quieres ser libre?”, se tiene que ir. Ademas que ninguna opcion despues de la formacion de la ONU es reconocida si no se es nacion soberana, para evitar la mentalidad del colonizado (que impera en PR).

    PuertoRico sera libre, es la marcha natural de un pueblo. Un pnp no derramara una gota de sangre o sudor para defender su ideal pero si esto se vuelve un estado, las calles arderan con aquellos que si tenemos dignidad.


  9. The question of “why Puerto Rico will never become the 51st state” has very little merit and with all the facts out there should be a moot issue obviously except for those that continue to be in denial of the facts.

    Our problem is what can be done in a hurry to change the partisan fanatical mentality of the Puerto Rican people so that they can see the evils of colonialism which leads them nowhere.

    The answer to those two questions is the reason why the eventuality of Puerto Rico gaining its independence through default is not a far fetched idea.

    We better stop the fanatical squabble soon and prepare to take over the NATION of Puerto Rico to make it prosper in this almost destroyed world. Let it not take us by surprise.

  10. I couldn’t disagree more. Glenn Beck is a moron. That much is true. And it pains me when I see GOP members harp so much criticism about the HR2499 when it was just in 2008 that the national GOP platform all but openly supported statehood.

    But I roll my eyes when I hear about the standardized cries of anti-Latino racism and hatred. As Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans have anything to do with the immigration debate in the first place. Why is it that so many Puerto Ricans become involved in that?

    Our current status is a disaster. We are hindered economically and are forced to live and die under a vote of Congress without full representation. Independence? Really? I think most Puerto Ricans enjoy and prefer to be citizens of the
    United States.

    Clearly this author has a disparaging view of the United States which I find disappointing. I love my heritage and my culture. But I love being an American. And frankly statehood is the best choice for both parties.

    • The new poll by EL NUEVO DÍA would concur with us. Fortuño’s Republican admin is overwhelmingly seen as a disaster.

      As for Beck, yes he is a moron. But he is also influential.

    • on February 22, 2012 at 12:29 am | Reply Lucas Rodríguez

      So we are hindered economically and politically by the US. Tell me again why most puertorriqueños want to citizens of the US.

      • We can want to be citizens and a state, but the point is the current political climate in the US won’t allow it. You can wish all you want, Congress won’t allow and neither will Tea Party America. Thanks for the comment!

  11. The flag has had odd stars before. The flag had even stars constantly only after New Mexico became #48. Your statement that Americans willl never accept a 51 star flag, is silly at best. The Old Glory flag has changed over 30 times. In fact,the original consisted of odd number of 13 stars. glen beck? (lower case “g” on purpose) is nobody! His show got cancelled,hahaha!!! His lie that the “progressive” in the pnp/new progressive statehood party name stands for liberal “progressive” hides the fact it really means progress toward statehood. the pnp is actually the island’s republican party! governor Luis Fortuño is a Republican who’ considered a possible “Reagan Candidate” for the GOP to run to woo latinos into the GOP. Glen becks puerto rican views were too much for FOX NEWS,which started a hispanic/spanish fox news channel.

  12. I will agree that facts do not matter to these anti Puerto Rican morons. These morons think we too are Mexicans! If you want to see a map of Puerto Rico before traveling….and you have the big book american map or rand mcnally maps…you have to go to the MEXICO page to find Puerto Rico! BOYCOTT THESE MAP MAKERS AND TELL THEM TO GIVE PUERTO RICO ITS OWN PAGE!!!!!They are prejudiced! they give canadian provinces like alberta/saskatchewan (population less than 1,000,000their own page, but squeeze a giant nation like mexico,with 165,000,000 into a small simple map,with PR in a tiny corner!!

    • These morons could be in the White House and ready run the Congress

      • on October 5, 2011 at 11:17 am Bruce R. Harris

        Luis; the Rand maps are designed for travelers. The reason Canada is given it’s own page is because people travel throughout Canada from the US then they travel into Mexico. I do agree that Puerto Rico should have it’s own page listed under US territories.

  13. on May 29, 2011 at 4:41 pm | Reply Hermano Latino

    I’m a Latino of non-Puerto Rican origin that follows the Puerto Rico status issue. I’m not surprised that Puerto Ricans voted three times to maintain the status quo. Like the saying goes, If it ain’t broke why change it?

    Commonwealth has helped Puerto Ricans maintain one of the highest GDP per capital in Latin America, the most coveted citizenship in the world, entry and travel to the U.S. and world through U.S. citizenship, defense protection, democratic rights, and all the benefits that come with being aligned to the sole super power of the world while at the same time clinging to their language and culture.

    As the economic prowess of the United States declines and so does that of P.R.,(Puerto Rico has been in a recession for a number of consecutive years now) Puerto Ricans are asking themselves if this political relationship is broken. Without offending one side or the other I humbly believe that statehood is not the right answer for Puerto Rico.

    When analyzing the arguments presented in favor and against the status options for Puerto Rico I sense that Puerto Ricans fear losing their language and culture. If that’s the case why even consider statehood? Yes the United States is a multi-cultural country that has accepted me and other immigrants, but it remains a fundamentally anglo-saxon nation. I accepted that and have assimilated and blended my Latino culture with the American culture. I felt it was my duty to do that as a foreigner that has decided to leave my country of origin for the U.S.

    Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States that has maintained it’s distinct Latin American culture, an enigma I would say. It’s not right to demand that Puerto Ricans who are not fluent in English shake off their hispanic origins and assimilate into America. The status quo is approved by both parties and is the product of colonialism. Either Puerto Ricans are accepted as they are, Spanish language and all, or statehood should not be an option.

    It disgusts me to see the PNP party in P.R. tell it’s people that things would continue as they are with Spanish as the official language. If P.R. were to become a state and all the predicted added economic benefits were to take place, it is only a matter of time before English speaking residents from the mainland would move to P.R. to reap the benefits. Who will shun who in who’s land becomes the question. My theory is that native Puerto Ricans would become a minority in P.R. like in Hawaii, Alaska and all other states where Indian reservations exist.

    If economic betterment is what Puerto Ricans are seeking while at the same time maintaining their beautiful culture then the obvious status change is for Free Association. U.S. citizenship, defense protection, economic support and most importantly, SOVEREIGNTY, can all be obtained with Free Association.

    Sovereignty is sought by peoples around the world. Guam, comparable to Puerto Rico, is considering the same political options. Check out this funny song in favor of Free Association. Puerto Rico should not become a state and turn into a Quebec or Scotland that is seeking independence from the United Kingdom.

    • Wow do you want to run for prime minister of Puerto Rico? Sone EXCELLENT observations.

      • i think puerto rico should become independent
        it doesnt matter the united states is alreadt in debt to other countries nd now make p.r a state will make evrything worst

        puerto rico is not meant to become a u.s state due to our lanuguage and stuff.. only a lil bit of the island speaks english spanish is more fluent but the case and reason is that puerto rico should stand on its feet now just like the rest of countries tht been through stuuf
        exoample cuba, south america, dominican and haiti they been thriugh it all nd now they on there two feet if those countris can do it then puerto rico could too..

    • Thanks for your comments. But you know what, with all due respect. You have live in PR so you can go through the many things we all go through on a daily basis under this “status quo”. I imagine you have all the benefits of a first class citizen. Come and live in PR and see if you are going to have the same benefits as you do in the US. I am a first class citizen born and raised in the US and you what? I don’t get the same benefits as if I were living in the states.

      • I plan to pull papers out for Governor when I return to the island this July. Will you vote for me?

      • on February 29, 2012 at 5:11 am Hermano Latino

        I respect your comment and struggles, but I am obviously looking at the bigger picture from a global perspective. I understand that some people equate statehood with full American rights and benefits. That is a fair argument. I guess it all comes down to how you identify yourself in this world and what you seek from the change of status. Statehood will guarantee you more political rights but not necessarily economic betterment.

    • on February 22, 2012 at 12:38 am | Reply Lucas Rodríguez

      I appreciate your insight and your interest in what is happening with the status issue. I think I can understand why you think a free association or something like that would be best. You like the US for some reason. I am currently in college in Texas and spending my Christmas and Summer vacations back home. I don’t like the US. I have my reasons. But if we strip the whole issue than to mere inalienable rights, Puerto Rico should become independent for the sole reason that it is its own nation. I mean, isn’t that what the Americans claimed when they sought independence?

      • on February 29, 2012 at 4:33 am Hermano Latino

        I like the U.S. because it truly has been the land of opportunity for my family and I. That said I love my country of origin and would never want for it to be a part of the U.S. due to the differences in language and culture. It would be nice though for P.R. to join the brotherhood/sisterhood of Latin American independent nations, but as you said, it all comes down to the inalienable rights of a peoples to choose for themselves how they want to be governed, not forthright independence.

      • on February 29, 2012 at 4:48 am Hermano Latino

        Follow-up to my earlier response to Lucas Rodriguez:

        I sympathize with the independence movement in Puerto Rico, but unfortunately it seems that not that many Puerto Ricans are in favor of independence. Wouldn’t it be easier to find a common ground with the rest of the population? If the PIP (independence) and PPD (ELA) join and support Free Association there may just be a majority at the polls!

      • Americans were tired of being unfairly taxed by King George. I don’t think that issue applies to Puerto Rico though.

  14. Glenn Beck is an idiot and doesn’t influence all of us. I’m a republican from the same state, Utah, and the same religion, LDS, as Glenn Beck and I support whatever the Puerto Ricans wish for their status of Puerto Rico.

    I would openly welcome Puerto Ricans if they were to choose statehood, they are already citizens of the United states of America and deserve all the rights that come with it.

    Glenn beck is only followed by people who believe in many conspieracy theories which is not the majority of us.

    • Great then as a Tea-publican or Republican, Dan, tell your political leaders to grow a sack and be more vocal about Puerto Rico. You are the only person from Utah who actually cares. Go work it to convince others. Thanks!

  15. Thanks to all Pro-Statehood supporters! we live on the here and now. History is history and it will not take us to where we as a country need to go. No one ever imagined we would have the President we have today! A great African American once had a dream and here we are today…I have no doubts whatsoever, Puerto Rico will become the 51st State. The trend analysis is there and it has its ups and down, but you know what? it is constantly forwarding to Statehood.

    The majority of our young generation will make it happen…there is no doubt! We need to support them for a better future. Its not about us, its about them. Independence is a dead dog, Estado Libre Asociado does not work for PR anymore. Even the creators and promoters of ELA are all confused they really don’t know what they want! and thats whats happening in PR today. Under ELA status we will keep slipping in mud. Its time to clean up our act and leave our emotions on one side and look at the facts.

    You others that don’t believe in statehood really think we won’t make a difference in congress, with the representation we are granted under statehood?. I trully believe it will make a big difference when time comes to decide better for PR, instead of just letting other congressmen decide for us.

    Lets face it, Statehood is going to happen sooner or later! and I hope sooner than later…

  16. Unfortunately, this is why PR will not become a state in the forseeable future ….sad, but true.

    White 73.9%
    African American 12.4%
    Asian 4.4%
    Native American and Alaskan Native 0.8%
    Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander 0.1%
    Other/multiracial 8.3%
    Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 14.8%

  17. I am curious how you can claim that all non-Lation Americans are racists, if not blatantly, then by insinuation and speculation. You are quick to cast a wide net over anyone who has differing opinions than you. Yet isn’t that the same exact ‘hatred’ and ‘racism’ you are accusing all Republicans of having towards Latinos? Why is it racism for them but not when you speak it?
    If “the Tea Party America” will never accept Latinos, why is there such a growth in Latino population? Is there racism? YES there is…against all races, including Caucasans! (but that is acceptable because it’s not considered racism if a white person is being hurt)

    If life is so horrible in the US for Latinos, why are so many coming here? Why is it racism when states pass laws that SUPPORT and enforce our national law? If someone is here illegally, whether they are Latino or not, then they are breaking the law. Why does enforcing immigration laws or supporting them mean someone is anti-Latino or racist?

    You obviously have some personal experiences that drive your opinions and your views. You are completely entitled to your views and obviously have quite a forum for sharing your views. I respect that. I am, however, offended by your obvious hatred and name calling of anyone who disagrees with you and your assertations that ALL Republicans, Tea Party, White, etc (basically non-Latinos) are the same.

    • Um good point, but if you think the United States will allow for a Latino colony to become a state I have a bridge to sell you.

      • Because we r not talking about any Latino from a third world.. further more Puerto Rican are American citizen by birth if u forgot..We are not any Latino..We vote for the President of the United State plus Our children die for Our country every day..do research B4 you speak about Puerto Rican as any Latino in U.S.A..Thank U!

    • Hey Lilly, i’m a supporter of The Tea Party movement and I am from the Great State of Abraham Lincoln(IL). I use to identify with the Republican Party, but it has been taken over by Liberals or “RINOs”(republican in name only). I am of Puerto Rican decent, born & reared in “America Proper”, and I believe that if we as Americans don’t embrace our identity based on Borders, Language, & Culture then all the efforts made by President Lincoln to save the Union will have been invain. The United States of America also evolved into a culture which includes the American dialect of the English language. I believe that if we don’t defend that one entity that bonds this nation together we are doomed. The United States has a right to her distinct identity, just as Puerto Rico does to her 400 years of a distinct identity which includes the Puerto Rican dialect of the spanish language. I think Mr. Varela is only making a point that nations have an inalianable right to defend thier distinct identity and unfortunately he failed convey that clearly. Americans have a right to defend thier “Anglo-Saxon” culture and if they don’t they will lose it and perhaps become “Hispanisized”. Thus, becoming a colony of Mexico or even Puerto Rico. How ironic, can you imagine? GO TEA PARTY!

      • Thanks for the comment. How many other boricuas are in the Tea Party and are people listening to you? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone in the GOP or Tea Party would support maintaining a colony and allowing PR to become a state. I am assuming that most would be more than happy to see PR go and stop being a US colony, yes?

    • What is Lily taking about????

      • Can’t answer for Lilli, but to be racist you need to have power and non-whites have no real power (political, monetary, etc.). You may be referring to prejudice – anyone can be prejudiced but the real harm is racism because it permeates our everyday life. Housing, education, opportunities, jobs, etc are all affected by structural racism, something whites have never experienced in the USA.

  18. Ok, so this means that American taxpayers will continue to pay Puerto Rico’s tab of $ 22 Billion tax free dollars a year for the rest of their (our) lives, while they lose their homes, cars and other property to the banks just because: 1) The U.S. doesn’t want us to be a tax paying state because we are spanish speaking people or 2) The Colonialists (ELA) don’t want to pay state taxes. I know that the majority of American taxpayers don’t know that the U.S. Government pays $ 22 Billion dollars a year to maintain a colony in the Caribbean called Puerto Rico. It’s in their hands to protest about this. Meanwhile, the colonialists and other politicians rob the local funds because there is no federal intervention in these funds. They are living the good life (La Vida Loca) while the hard working American taxpayers pay the tab for the colony.

  19. on July 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm | Reply TEODORO LEON


  20. Glen is paid off by the Partido Popular Democratico PPD that uses all they can to avoid PR become a state. The same dirty tactics they have been used before for example search (letter that Hernandez colon wrote to congress). a letter that A former governor wrote to congress putting PR as the worst in the word. This malice action tells a lot what they are willing to do, even talk about their fellow citicents in a bad way. also Congress men Gutierrez is paid off by the PPD party. Yes, all this we now know and thanks to the new information technology the people are finding out the truth. People can search information, see the letters and video and go back and see how they have lied to us. Glen bendeck. I have a question for you we don’t pay fed taxes and that is true, if we become a state we will. Now you mention that against us, but where in the US Constitution says that a US Citizen can not vote because it do not paid federal taxes?

    • Ha Glenn Beck doesnt give a shit about the Populares. That is funny!!!

      • on September 12, 2011 at 6:41 am Bruce R. Harris

        “I have a question for you we don’t pay fed taxes and that is true, if we become a state we will. Now you mention that against us, but where in the US Constitution says that a US Citizen can not vote because it do not paid federal taxes?” Israel

        My posts are answers to one of your faithful, yet ignorant followers. I’m just surprised you did not provide an answer to Israels’ question. Is it because you are not very familiar with US history, and the why’s of how things are supposed to be accomplished in Congress?

        Spreading bad poop is not the way to get people together. If you want to be taken as a serious mediator by people of all sides of the issues then provide only factual and truthful comments all of the time. And this statement below will win you absolutely no points from most of Americans, including many of my latino friends.

        “So now that you have the history of this politically charged debate (it has basically been the respective rallying cry between the PPD and the PNP), I still say this: In today’s America, a place where anti-Latino sentiment towards illegal immigrants and legal citizens has never been stronger, why would Puerto Rico, a proud country with ties to both the United States and Latin America, want to become the 51st state? Even if it did (and the current governor Luis Fortuño is a strong advocate of statehood), the America we know today would never welcome it.” You

      • Your logic makes so no sense, Bruce, so much so that we wrote a blog post about it today. Thanks for the content opportunity.

      • on September 12, 2011 at 9:56 am Bruce R. Harris

        “Throughout most of the 19th century until the conclusion of the Spanish–American War, Puerto Rico and Cuba were the last two Spanish colonies in the New World; they served as Spain’s final outposts in a strategy to regain control of the American continents.” Wikipedia

        The reason why the U.S. invaded Puerto Rico is because Spain was threatening the U.S. as it states above. Or maybe you question Wilipedia’s facts?

      • Quoting Wikipedia? LOL That is classic.

        FYI, if you KNOW Puerto Rican history, you know that Puerto Rico had just gained autonomy from Spain in 1897 and was about to have its first elections in the summer of 1898, but a certain manifest destiny country of the north invaded Puerto Rico in July of 1898 and has been in control of the island for 113 years. Puerto Rico is the only colony in the Western Hemisphere.

        Bruce, keep drinking your Fortuño Kool Aid. The political reality of Tea Party America is that Puerto Rico as a state wold cost the US 19 billion dollars a year. There is NO WAY Puerto Rico will ever become a state. I have sent letters to key Republican leaders and they don’t give a shit about Puerto Rico. Wake up and smell the cafecito, hermano. Not gonna happen, not matter how many non-binding plebiscites we have. In the end, the United States holds the key to our political future. It is in their interest to keep us in ELA limbo. Time to change this.

      • For you to think that Spain was STILL a power in the late 19th century and a threat to the United States is laughable.

    • “No taxation without representation” is a slogan originating during the 1750s and 1760s that summarized a primary grievance of the British colonists in the Thirteen Colonies, which was one of the major causes of the American Revolution. In short, many in those colonies believed the lack of direct representation in the distant British Parliament was an illegal denial of their rights as Englishmen, and therefore laws taxing the colonists (one of the types of laws that affects the majority of individuals directly), and other laws applying only to the colonies, were unconstitutional. However, during the time of the American Revolution, only one in twenty British citizens had representation in parliament, none of whom were part of the colonies. In recent times, it has been used by several other groups in several different countries over similar disputes, including currently in some parts of the United States (see below).

      • on September 11, 2011 at 12:27 pm Bruce R. Harris

        The Electoral College consists of the electors appointed by each state who formally elect the President and Vice President of the United States. Since 1964, there have been 538 electors in each presidential election.[1] Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution specifies how many electors each state is entitled to have and that each state’s legislature decides how its electors are to be chosen. U.S. territories are not represented in the Electoral College. The Electoral College is an example of an indirect election, as opposed to a direct election by United States citizens.

      • And your point is….. ?????

      • on September 12, 2011 at 10:22 am Bruce R. Harris

        If you know your history you also know why Spain offered Puerto Ricans that deal just prior to the US invading PR. But I guess even that sweet offer did not gain the kind of loyalty they needed to help the natives fight with them when the Americans finally invaded PR.

        “The Spanish soldier Julio Cervera Baviera, who served in the Puerto Rican Campaign, published a pamphlet in which he blamed the natives of that colony for its occupation by the Americans, saying: “I have never seen such a servile, ungrateful country [i.e., Puerto Rico]… In twenty-four hours, the people of Puerto Rico went from being fervently Spanish to enthusiastically American… They humiliated themselves, giving in to the invader as the slave bows to the powerful lord.”[71] He was challenged to a duel by a group of young Puerto Ricans for writing this pamphlet.[72]”

      • I do know my PR history bro having majored in it at school and writing my thesis about the island-victim motif that has suffocated our homeland for centuries. Sorry, you will never convince me. Report me to the authorities about my biases. It’s cool.

    • Hey Israel, there are 50 States in our Union, select one and move there; enough of this nonsene. Don’t you get it, Puerto Rico was never meant to be a state, just a gate to control the western hemisphere. Look up the Monroe Doctrine.

  21. I am not a fan of Glen Beck, but he does have a point on the power grab. Word of advice: Be careful of the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Do not be suckered into anything without weighing the pros and cons. Statehood does have many advantages. However, without a strong state constitution there is danger. Without moral representation you are doomed.

    Please don’t attack the Tea Party movement. That’s like someone saying their pants make their butt look big. It’s not the pants fault that person has a huge back-end. The reason the Tea Party exists is because those guys in DC have been ignoring the people and the states. The Tea Party is made up of people from all walks of life. They would like the bloated government to slim down and get itself back into its skinny jeans. But like anything else there may be a few bad apples in the bunch. Consider how Ron Paul stands out from the bunch of rotten apples in DC. He is pro State’s rights, pro Personal rights, and limited government. His voting record proves it. It would benefit all states and territories to have him for President.

    Without men like Ron Paul statehood is a moot and mute point. Whether a territory or a state there are those who want power to control others; there are those who are determined to stop the power-hungry wolves. Make sure you know what your representative stands for at all times. Otherwise, you will end up with crooks like Simpson, Crapo, and Risch from Idaho (the 4th freest state in the union). I know…I’ve been trying to spread the word and been voting to get these career crooks out office. Unfortunately, the majority of Idahoans like to drink their Kool-Aid and keep putting them in office.

    It’s up to you guys. You’re still U.S. citizens either which way.

    • The Tea Party will never allow PR to become a state. It costs the US 19 billion to sustain PR. Free it now.

      • You have a point bro
        And another thing too

        Yah people u know you live in america should know the crisis were in imagine tht

        United states already owe billion and billions of dollers to other coutries nd the stock market is slowly decreasing

        Now your trying to make puerto rico a state cmon get real pay 19 billion dollers a year vamos gringo wake up it serious stop playing kthe power game because at the end american fucked up while other not

      • Us puerto ricans it may see to yah like were lazy nd depends on things but no u believe in what other people say

        We can work hard no problem like everybody else like some american people your lazier then ever but still main tain yah selves

        Puerto rico us puerto ricans dnt need to be a state nd another thing we dnt lose our beautiful hispanic heritage FYI most of the island already choosing mostly independence and another thing mostly americans first class even chooses for it to be independent so its puerto ricans and half of first class citizens from all over the united states vs some of u state hood people cmon new world puerto rican people are seeing tht statehood is not best.. so call it off save you time to live nd just face facts it time for us to make more history .. puerto rico will gain its indenpendence just as everybody else got there also as u people united states

    • We are second class US citizens.

  22. The greatest celebration of the great American nation is … INDEPENDENCE DAY!! Two hundred and thirty five years ago, thirteen brave colonies went at it with Les Englaise to gain their freedom. How can the Puerto Rican petit-yankeese expect the proud American nation to accept their pathetic maneuvers to become assimilated into the Union? Rubbish!! The Compact of Free Association is a known quantity to the US Government (Palao, Marshall Islands and The Federated States of Micronesia). This is EXACTLY what Puerto Rico needs: INDEPENDENCE in ALLIANCE with the USA. The US Government is even willing to guarantee that American citizenship will not be lost in the process!! What are you waiting for, Boricuas?

    • That will be a great day and I would hope that Americans don’t take offense when we Boricuas decline thier hand in marriage. We told the world on Sept 23, 1868 that we are PUERTORRIQUENOS, that we are a nation with a nationality like no where else in the world. So, in the words of Don Jose de Diego, “Go with the devil and leave us with God!” Long live the Republic!

  23. Congress has a surprise in store for Puerto Rico. There is talk among some in congress to Make Puerto Rico an incorporated commonwealth (ELA incorporado) This way, Puerto Rico becomes a part of the US.(unlike today, where PR belongs to,but isn’t a PART of the US. The territorial Clause still applies,but indipendence is off the table. This way, US can finally impose the IRS federal taxes on Puerto Rico. In return, US citizenship and permanent union that over 90% of islanders with US is secured. Now, historically all incorporated territories become states. But since The main drive for statehood is preservation of citizenship,Congress will simply make PR an INCORPORATED US ” ELA”territory en route to statehood. Only that statehood (its main reason=permanent union&citizenship now secured under incorporated ELA)will never come. It will stay an incorporated ELA withFederal taxes in perpetual limbo.

    • Send us a link? Who is sponsoring the bill? Thanks for the update. Don’t think paying federal taxes in ADDITION to what Puerto Ricans already pay in taxes will really work. That makes no sense.

    • Hey Puerto Ricans have been paying the highest tax that anyone can pay since 1917………..it’s called the BLOOD TAX! Ever since the imposition of U.S. citizenship Puerto Ricans have had to pay with thier sons in wars of the U.S. That is called a BLOOD TAX.

  24. on September 12, 2011 at 1:14 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Now let’s be honest Julito. In my last post who did you identify with? The Spanish soldier who was angry at the Puerto Rican natives for turning against them? Or the Puerto Rican natives who decided to join the Americans? You see, I believe this very question is at the very heart of why Puerto Ricans cannot find solidarity in their fight for statehood status. It is a very real identity crisis. Ask most Americans if the revolution against the Brits was a good things, and most everyone, if not all will say of course. Which is why we celebrate the 4th of July every year. So tell me, what day does Puerto Rico celebrate it’s independence from Spain? Sorry, that’s just a rhetorical question. You don’t need to answer.

    • Bruce, you still hear? So what Muñoz Rivera said on the floor of Congress in 1916 doesn’t do anything for you? You will the Colonialist Thinking Award. Congrats! Exactly, the islanders who joined the United States forces clearly shows that Puerto Rican has been inherently pro-American (hint that was sarcastic) and that the last 113 years have been orchestrated by a anti-American Puerto Ricans who don’t care one iota for their country. I still do not understand your logic at all and I would suggest that you just move one or start your own blog, since your reasoning makes no sense. As for July 4, you really are serious that you are linking Puerto Rico’s search for statehood with the American Revolution? Again, your Wikepedia logic is weak. Go back and study the history of Puerto Rico again, I suggest you read Zeno, Rivera, Betances, Albizo, Muñoz and others. And then get back to us.

    • Bruce, were you born on the island? How long have you lived there?

    • We celebrate the 23 of Sept, El Grito de Lares, Mamao Yankee.

  25. on September 12, 2011 at 2:23 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “I do know my PR history bro having majored in it at school and writing my thesis about the island-victim motif that has suffocated our homeland for centuries. Sorry, you will never convince me. Report me to the authorities about my biases. It’s cool.”

    Cry me a river bro! You just have it so hard here. Where do you get your opinions from? Because you certainly haven’t quoted any reputable sources to back up your beliefs. Yeah bro, don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinions. And report you to the authorities for your biases?! Hell, I’d have to report most of the islanders for having the same biases as yourself.

    • Your shtick is making me tired but I do appreciate the blog traffic. You are my new favorite troll. If you feel so strongly about the facts, set up your own blog and try to convince us, which by the way, your comparison to Israel and Puerto Rico is silly as well as your theory that 19th century Spain was still a world power. But again, I do appreciate your comments and how they have helped me improve my Google ranking so I can continue to poison the minds of others, which is what you claim. I will leave you with these two quotes:

      Rafael Hernandez Colón, 1998, “The Nation, Century to Century”:
      “Who are we and where are we going? We are pure and irrevocably Puerto Rican, a nation with a defined culture, we’re not North Americans, although we are U.S. citizens and we’re proud to be.”

      Jose de Diego, April 9, 1910, U.S. House of Representatives:
      “If the U.S. flag in Puerto Rico covers an American territory, we Puerto Rican, by natural rights, are perfect U.S. citizens. U.S. citizenship should not be imposed on a Puerto Rican if he does not want it, but if there is a law making all Puerto Ricans ipsofacto U.S. citizens, then the ideals of the people of Puerto Rico would be achieved.”

      Here is the problem, these two quotes show the paradox that is Puerto Rico. We are and always will be second-class citizens in the US, and by having accepted this mentality for decades, we are nothing. And if you still think that 21st century US will gladly welcome PR into the Union, then you really love drinking fantasy juice. BTW, were you born on the island? How long have you lived there? Enlighten me.

  26. on September 12, 2011 at 2:45 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    You are absolutely correct Julito, it is time for me to move on. Good luck with your quest to become the 51st. state. But between you and me, and your faithful, yet ignorant followers, you are all going about it the wrong way. U.S. citizens who do pay federal taxes, such as myself, which help support the many social programs here in PR have the right to determine Puerto Rico’s final status. Not Puerto Ricans. Why is it you believe you should be able to decide how that pool of money should be spent if you are not contributing any money to the pool? But that seems to be what you are advocating. You want all the rights and benefits of a full fledged state, without any of the monetary responsibilities. Most grownups would call that thinking simply childish. Sorry Julito, but it is your logic that is flawed. And truthfully, I blame Congress for that. But that is another post. Have you read “Pay to the Order of Puerto Rico”? Long read, but quite interesting. See ya.

    • Ha! I don’t want statehood and you aren’t Puerto Rican, ha! No wonder you make no sense with your logic. You just proved my point as to why PR will never attain statehood. Thanks!!!!

  27. on October 3, 2011 at 8:35 pm | Reply Modesto Figueroa

    In PR once we put aside the actual Status Quo and proceed to choose between Independence and Statehood, the latter option will win by a landslide, like 98%.

  28. We should go like palestine and go to the UN and demand independence or free association. Statehoods nothing but a sham. Sure it sounds dandy with all the benefits but sooner or later people have to realize that Puerto Rico will become a welfare state in the next 25-30 years after statehood is admitted (god forbid).

    Going independent (free association included) we can at least get these lazy asses back to work and have a generation of puerto ricans working for their country. Something that basically never happened before. It will probably be a pain in the ass but its all worth It and people don’t want to realize that. I’m from PR so yeah I’m a so called “independista”

    • Julián, I did write about the Palestine question two weeks ago and you are so right! Here is the link: https://juliorvarela.com/2011/09/24/what-puerto-rico-can-learn-from-president-obamas-policy-on-palestinian-statehood/

    • Julian, you missed it. Puerto Ricans were very hard working people before the northamerican invasion, but the actions of Puerto Ricans to end the northamerican occupation and restore Puerto Rico’s Independence by the Great Don Pedro Albizu Campos cause the occuppiers to become nervous about the profits they would loose from this great little colony known as Puerto Rico. The intelectuals were killed or imprisoned, the farms converted into golf courses for aliens and drugs and prostitution were imported to destabilize 400 years of Catholism, dignity, culture & pride/selfesteem. Think it worked to a point? Not totally, but it was like “scarlet fever”.

      • Hey Al, if you are ever interested in posting a 500-word essay about your thoughts about all this, just let me know. Email juliorvarela at gmail.com Peace out thanks for all the comments tonight!

  29. Julio, your thesis would make an excellent read (I believe), so if you can share it, I’d like a copy. I’ve stated several arguments against statehood, some of which aren’t made here in the comments, but it ultimately boils down to “They don’t want Us.” Period. Never have, never will.

    As for Mr. Harris’ suggestion to read “Pay To The Order Of Puerto Rico,” by Alexander Odishelidze, I would recommend it if you want to read a book about someone who (a) came here from a foreign country, (b) worked hard to become a success, i.e., “The American Dream,” (c) decided to stay here after his life was pretty much set (children, success, failures) and then (d) proselytizes like mad against the economic structure of the Island (federal transfers), while ignoring the U.S.-based private sector’s wholesale profiteering. Mr. Odishelidze is worthy of admiration for what he accomplished, but when he strays from his “can do” mentality into “political economic analysis,” he goes from gold medal winner to tin-pot crank.

  30. on December 15, 2011 at 12:26 pm | Reply Emmanuel Caceres

    I love that idea is time for Puerto Rico a pround country be set free and have it’s own idenity.

    • It’s not a country. I hate when people do that when they say things such as “It’s time to let the nation of Quebec be free.” It’s not a nation and neither is Puerto Rico it may be one day, but don’t go calling it what it’s not; a group of people’s feelings on what something should be does not determine what it really is.

  31. Keep your eyes open, freedom is coming in the form of a free nation and those who hate freedom will have to comit suicide, because liberty will overwhelm them, thus killing them.

  32. Here we go again, another political Walter Mercado predicting the status of Puerto Rico. It really doesn’t matter how much you write my friend, arguments like these will alway be defeated by one simple truth: There is not one single drop of desire in the people of Puerto Rico to become a separate nation. Period. We are Americans, and we will keep that way.

  33. on January 20, 2012 at 9:52 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “If a Congressionally-sanctioned vote is going to be held, it must come with an open, thorough understanding of what independence or statehood would mean to Puerto Rico and the existing 50 states. This approach of voting first and answering questions later is exactly backwards.” redstate.com

    I’ve been saying this all along. Why would anyone consider voting for something they know nothing about. It’s similar to signing a blank check. Not very smart.

    • Bruce (We will meet soon), your point is spot-on valid. But who is to define statehood? Obviously, the U.S. We can even say the concept already has a definition, with 50 examples. Therefore the only true “unknown” is independence, which We as Puerto Ricans have NEVER defined well enough to generate any significant support.

      Statehood is already defined; what’s left to evaluate is what it would change in the current structure of the U.S. and P.R. The GAO has done this at least 4 times, never with a favorable assessment. Aside from any other issue (and there are others), the economics of statehood are simply not favorable to either side. Congress won’t offer a binding plebiscite and can (rightly) use economics as the reason; We won’t accept a plebiscite that tilts Us towards independence because We don’t want that unknown.

      Oh, and the commonwealth status sucks like a Dyson…with an inappropriate amount of suction. Talk about Solomonic quandaries…(and Our leaders are collectively half as wise as Solomon’s unwashed left foot.)

  34. on January 20, 2012 at 4:07 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Hello Gil; I agree, statehood is pretty much something everyone has a good idea about since there are 50 states that can be used as a template. Now, free association is an entirely different animal. I’ve heard some say this should be written by the U.S. Congress. In this I whole heartedly disagree. I strongly believe this document should be written by the leadership here on the island with input from folks who are physically living on the island, registered to vote and pay taxes. Bonafide residents of Puerto Rico who have a stake in Puerto Rico’s future. The question is, can this “constitution” outlining the terms of a “free association” with the U.S. be ready in time so it can be widely disseminated in time for the majority of voters to read and understand exactly what they will be voting for come November? I just think another opportunity is going to be missed if the leaders do not act soon.

    P.S. You should have my e-mail Gil. Let me know.

    • Bruce, I agree in every way. (Have your e-mail, too.) Free association–whatever that means–should be defined by us, not Congress or the U.N. or whoever else thinks they have 2 cents to proffer and only island residents should vote on it. All those “Yo soy boricua” Ricans, whose knowledge of our culture, language and day-to-day reality is equal to that of Minnesotans’s knowledge of Afghanistan, have no skin in the game and thus have no valid reason to vote. (I could have picked any other state; Minnesota lost the final coin toss…)

      The problem I see is that free association has remained undefined because it can only move the current commonwealth status in two directions: “away” from the U.S. (autonomy), a step that U.S. business interests abhore or “towards” the U.S., which U.S. political interests reject as “pre-statehood.”

      Funny how there was an autonomy structure in 1898 that beat what we’ve had for 60 years all hollow…and none of our so-called “leaders” use it as a template to launch discussions. Why? 94% ignorance, 6% laziness, a combination that amounts to 100% “fear of actually facing reality.”

  35. on January 21, 2012 at 11:00 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    I read the article Emigration: What Does It Mean, 5 January, 2012. I found it to be extremely insightful, if not worrisome. It has been proven time and again that a good education is the key to a thriving economy, yet still so many parents don’t seem to get it. Not here, not in the U.S. It’s no wonder the U.S. has to import scientists and engineers from other countries to work in R&D fields. Throwing more money and technology at the problem can help, but nothing can ever replace the human interaction. Since many of our public schools are government ran, and unions have pretty much left the private sector, unions are more focused on public schools. Unfortunately unions represent teachers, not students. Maybe we can start a union for students that would focus on a better education and not just better salaries and secure jobs for dead weight teachers.

    • Hey bruce, you & your buddy gil schmidt have nothing to say about Puerto Rico because you are a gringos! An election did not make Puerto Rico a colony, an invasion by “white people” did. It is well known that the “election booth” is the “coffin” of the Puerto Rican People and we will not let that happen. Your name and face will always give you away. The usa will one day be like spain was in 1898 and then you will see the end of this crime. Fua! Time is on our side and so is God.

      • Al, speaking for me, you are dead wrong. I was born in Puerto Rico, a 4th-generation Puerto Rican. I spent half my childhood on the Island and have made it my home once again since 1987.

        Yes, my name and even my look is that of a “gringo.” But that’s where it ends. You make the same mistake, “Al,” of confusing surface for substance. Or are you one of those who judges others by what they would do, possibly shortening the Hispanic “Alberto” or “Alfredo” to “Al” because, you know, “Al” is just “better”?

        Thirty seconds of Web research would have given you the answer about me. Better luck next time. And as for “God” being on our side, she is patient, isn’t she?

      • on February 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm Bruce R. Harris

        I guess you are also referring to Spain as “white people” invaded Puerto Rico over 500 years ago. You do know Spain is considered a white european country right? Are they “gringos” too? If so, then Puerto Ricans are also part gringo you ignoramus. And as long as I pay PR taxes and own property here I will always have a say concerning Puerto Rico’s future.

      • It sure does bother you bruce boy that we know the truth of that “splendid little war” in 1898 which was really a typical “north american stickup”. Check out “A People’s History of the United States”, you’ll see. By the way, you resort to words of cowards like “ignoramus” behind your little computer, but not in person. I know your kind very well. Hey gil, if you want to know just ask, Al is short for “Aloysius” and “Al” is just the abreviation we use in 21st century; boy do you have some deep rooted racism and I bet your a little “confused” too, but i’ll leave that alone. As for you bruce, you are the ignorant one because the people living in Espania are of different “races” and “nationalities”. For example in the north El Pais Basco they will always tell you that they are not “espanoles”, but “Biscainos”; as my greatgrandmother would always say and people in the south refer to themselves as “Andalucianos” as my grandfather did, who incidently was “pretty dark”, not “white. All of these people who came to la Isla Puerto Rico of different backgrounds provided the “Sofrito” that made the Puerto Rican Nationality by the late 1800s. Oh, how can I forget that great grandmother from Africa, who had the biggest heart of all and who was always busy cooking in la cocina; “bendito”. I bet your buddy “gil” doesn’t have a grandmother of african heritage, even after four generations of being born in “occuppied Puerto Rico”. Listen carefully boys, Puerto Rico will never be a state of your country; to the contrary. The best you will achieve is a “Northern Ireland”. If you think your paying for your father’s invasion now, you haven’t seen anything yet. Oh bruce, I won’t stupe to your level and call you a “mamao”, but it’s tempting. FUA!

      • Hey, Alcornoque, my “deep-rooted racism” is comical, for not only were 2 of my great-grandmothers black and 2 of my grandmothers mestizas, my son’s mother and my current wife both have black/white parents. And before you jump to another conclusion with the graceful jeté of a severely retarded hippo, I married my son’s mother a year before he was born.

        Now. Alcachofa, about me being “confused,” I didn’t start this name-slinging spitfest, but unlike you, I have exchanged thoughtful comments with Bruce (who needs no defense) and with others in this forum. But to deal with you on your level, I’d have to lose enough IQ points to reach your single-digit, slope-headed lack of brilliance, which would entail either total brain damage on my part (defining you in the process) or toss away so much knowledge that it would create its own gravitational field and swallow your limp-wristed stupidity in a heartbeat. Either way, you’d still be toast. Brittle, stale, crumbling toast.

        And to clarify, Alcantarillado, please have someone read this to you and explain it several times: I have never advocated or supported statehood for Puerto Rico, nor have I ever considered that the U.S. of part of A. would ever grant it.

        Next time you wish to engage in a battle of wits, may I suggest you hire someone to give it a go? I feel like I’m shadowboxing here, only my shadow (black, at that) is still several dozen times more capable than you will ever be.


      • on March 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm Bruce R. Harris

        You started the name calling Al. Or do you just think “white people” like to be called gringos? Another thing, not all americans want this island to be another state. I like it just fine the way it is which is the reason I moved here. But like any place it would be better if we could get rid of racism.

  36. Vive Puerto Rico libre !!!!

  37. Cuantos de los llamados independentistas comentando aqui viven en EEUU? Que paso? No pueden echar su pais adelante y se van a pegarse de otro? De lejos se nota su ignorancia. Como se dice por ahi: Desde los bleachers es un mamey. Si Puerto Rico puede ser autosuficiente y podemos ser mas ricos que los paises petroleros entonces, por que se van? Yo se por que, porque son vagos, y mantenidos, no echan para alante si no se agarran de alguien que los arrastre. Por eso yo me rio de los independentistas, siempre quieren todo gratis y facil. Asi no se puede echar un pais hacia delante. Puerto Rico puede ser independiente, y tiene los recursos naturales para ser un pais prospero. El unico problema de Puerto Rico es que esta lleno de puertorriqueños como ustedes. Eso del idioma no es importante, eso es simple propaganda barata de los independentistas que en vez de promover la independencia demostrando que Puerto Rico puede ser prospero por sus propios recusos la quieren promover a traves el miedo y la ignorancia. Si usted es independentista de verdad deje de estar poniendo excusas y empiece a producir en su pais y demuestre que Puerto Rico puede hacer todo lo que usted dice. Pero yo se que no lo van a hacer. Es mas facil tirarse para atras a decir que no se puede.

  38. Yo no quiero que mi isla sea parte de los estados unidos. Puerto Rico tiene que ser Independiente! Boricua ❤

  39. Make it a freaking independent country already! Then sit back and watch the tidal wave of ricans coming to the mainland.

    • on February 29, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Reply Al_u_got_me@msn.com

      Your right Redskin, soon after the end of the occupation tens of thousands of those colonist will flee, they were never Boricuas in the first place. Just because your born in Borinquen does not mean you are Boricua; nope not at all. We will begin the dismantling of the colonial apparatus which began in july of 1898 by lowering forever thier flag and ours will fly alone. Then will take up where our founding fathers like Don Munos River and Don Jose de Diego left off ; building the Republic. By the way, you may be able to use those colonist at your next colonial venture, the moon.

  40. on February 22, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Puerto Rico did not become a colony when the U.S. invaded in 1898 Al. 500 years prior to the U.S. invasion the Spanish Conquistadors invaded the island and enslaved the Taino indians and eventually over time completely assimilated the Spanish colonials with the native population. I find it odd that no one really talks about this as though “San Juan” has always been inhabited by Puerto Ricans. Definitely a bit of denial going on here.

    • on February 22, 2012 at 7:35 pm | Reply Lucas Rodríguez

      Oh, it’s definite not denied. We puertorriqueños consider ourselves to be a mix of races and their traditions. That is what we are today. After 400 years we were well defined as a unique nation. I think the US can identify with us considering the natives in the land and the fact that they called themselves a nation in 1776. So as a nation, we puertorriqueños can claim independence just as the US did.

  41. on February 22, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    You got a mouse in your pocket Lucas? Because the last time I checked the polls it was pretty much divided between commonwealth and statehood with independence as an “also ran” . So this “we” Puerto Ricans are all agreeing on independence is some serious denial.

    And as far as being well defined after 400 years, defined as what? It was only in 1897 when the Spaniards “claimed” they were going to give Puerto Rico a chance to chose to become independent. So PR was still a colony of Spain when the U.S. invaded. So it just makes one wonder exactly which identity Puerto Ricans are claiming!?

    And the U.S. did not just call themselves a nation in 1776. They fought and took America away from England. Maybe if the San Juan colonials had done the same back some 400 years ago, we wouldn’t be having this discussion would we?

    • on February 22, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Reply Lucas Rodríguez

      I can admit that a lot of people don’t agree on Independence, but I think we can say that Puerto Ricans thought themselves Puerto Ricans all through the 1800’s. We were defined as to who we were and are. We had fought for our freedom over those 400 years and we had gotten autonomy little by little. The US had no right to come and claim. In 1897 we weren’t being given our independence. The Spanish didn’t just “claim” anything, they did as they said. We had been granted great political autonomy through our efforts by then and in 1897 we were given economic freedom too (something the US has yet to give us).

      The US fought England after it had found its own identity as a nation. We had been fighting and slowly winning autonomy. We had our fights we the Spanish as well (Grito de Lares, 1868). When the US invaded in 1898 we were achieving our goals diplomatically. The US invasion was unjust and reset our efforts over 400 years.

  42. on February 23, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris


    The link above contains an excellent article on the history of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and why President McKinley chose to go to war. It also talks about why Puerto Rico was selected to be invaded which, in my opinion, was a serious flawed reason for doing so. 1898 was a defining moment for the US from a Republic to Imperialism. This decision to take the US war machine to other countries was a terrible one which today we are still reaping negative repercussions.

    But it is what it is, and Puerto Rico was in the wrong place at the wrong time in history. The question is, how does Puerto Rico move forward in the direction that would please the majority of the people since PR is a democratic country? Referendums have been conducted with pretty much the same results. Half the people want to keep PR a commonwealth and the other half wants to become a state. Should congress simply ignore one side of the equation and make PR a state? Or remain a commonwealth? Or would it be more fair and just to wait and let PR decide by a clear majority which direction they want to go? It’s easy to say everyone is united because of their culture and language, that is until the results of a referendum clearly show no one here is united when it comes to one specific status. Until Puerto Ricans take a solid majority stand on one status, Congress is never going to act.

  43. The worst thing any country can do is to invade another, point blank! It is outright criminal. Victims never forget and the offenders always pay for their crimes, even if it’s only their own conscience turning them. Rev. Wright said it best when he spoke of the crimes committed by the northamerican empire. The rooster has come home to crow. When this all comes to a head, even Mr Lincoln won’t be able to save this monster.

  44. on March 3, 2012 at 9:43 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    After the sinking of the USS Maine in the Havana, Cuba harbor in 1898, the US determined it to be an act of war by Spain. Unfortunately for Puerto Ricans, Puerto Rico was “owned” by Spain and had built a huge fortress armed with soldiers and cannons, and fast patrol boats which regularly threatened US vessels. Some people could easily argue that Spain brought on the invasion. It seems the rooster came home to crow for Spain. They say if America falls, China will become the super power. We are already seeing China getting more involved in South and Central America. How will this change the dynamics around the world?

    • Everyone knows who blew up that ship, and if you don’t then you should. Northamerican criminals did, both in the business and politcal arenas who were looking for international markets they could control to sell their goods without any competiton from “quality” products from Europe. The Phillipines, Cuba & Puerto Rico became the targets of this imperialist plot and today, there is one of three victims left; Puerto Rico. There is nothing unfortunate about being a victim, it is damn tragic. You would’nt say that about a rape victim and you would not say that she was in the wrong place, not at all. The Autonomous charter of 1897 signed by King Alfonso of Espania put to end “ownership” of Puerto Rico. The 29 years of hostilities against the King’s forces by the Puerto Ricans ceased in anticipation of the total withdrawal of his forces and the establishment of self government by the Puerto Rican People. So Espania could not give away something that was not hers, nor could the northamerican empire take something that was illegal (by international law) to take or receive by purchase or as a gift. Now that is what happen and as far as the northamerican empire falling and China moving in; well that would be a good thing. I always preferred Chinese food over hambugers, I even prefer cars made in Japan and Korea.

  45. on March 5, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “Everyone knows who blew up that ship, and if you don’t then you should.” Marko

    Where is your reference Marko for proof of what you say?

    And you’re saying that following WWII the US poured in billions of dollars under the Marshall Plan so we could control Germany and Japan’s economies and force them to buy US goods? Can I ask how you came to this conclusion?

    And do you find it kind of odd that after 500 years of Spanish rule that the Spaniards were offering to free Puerto Rico within one year of the US invasion? Do you think maybe it was a ploy to get Puerto Ricans to fight alongside the Spaniards when the US invaded? And why didn’t Puerto Ricans fight with the Spaniards when the US invaded? Maybe they figured out Spain was selling them a “bridge to nowhere” and surrendered rather than fight, and possibly die, for a country they knew was lying to them? Just a little food for thought.

    As for your take on China, all I can say is, shallow, real shallow thinking going on there.

    • Bruce, I know It is not easy to have a discussion, when that discussion implicates an institution you are fond of (the united States) as the villian/offender of a crime. Discussions of this nature requires critical thought that is absent of bias. Now listen carefully. The time between the year 1897 and 1945 is great. Two different eras and situations. The year I mentioned was 1897, which was approx. 29 years after the initial battle of independence by the Borinquenos against the espanoles (or spaniards as you refer to them). History recorded the event as “El Grito de Lares” and the People of Borinquen declared themselves free by proclaiming the Republic of Puerto Rico. Yes it is true that the “politcal” aspect of it lasted about eight days, during which time the flag of the Republic of Puerto Rico flew freely in the Plaza of Lares. However, despite the attack by spanish troops on the town of Lares, which resulted in the execution of Puerto Rican Patriots and the exile of others, the war for independence had begun. It lasted until an agreement was reached between the spanish crown and prominent political figures in Puerto Rico like Jose de Diego and Luis Munos Rivera. That agreement, a legal document in the eyes of international law is known as “The Autonomous Charter of 1897” and signed by King Alfonso of Spain. Now clearly, it was not “within one year of the US invasion”, as you say. When John Hancock signed his name to “The Declaration of Independence of the United States of America”, it was many years later in which that “Republic” was realized. Had France, Spain and other powerful nations decided to intervene when British Gen. Cornwallace was defeated and take advantage of a new young republic, then perhaps the the thirtheen colonies would have remained just that for another 114 years. Oh, and to answer your other question as to why some Puerto Ricans didn’t help in challenging the invading Northamerican troops, well the answer is that Puerto Ricans like Cubans believed that the Northamericans were a peacful, freedom loving people who would not enslave their neighbors. Afterall, the invading Gen Miles did proclaim to the Puerto Rican People that he was there not to enslave the Puerto Ricans, but on the contrary to bring to them the liberal institutions of his government. Now, who lied? Who speaks with fork tongue?

      • Glen Beck is. Piece of garbage. Me da pena por la mierda que tenga la desgracia de salir de el!!.
        I can’t believe I was a fan at one time. But when I saw him talking crap about how Puerto Rico was going to FORCE itself onto statehood using the Tennessee plan, I went nuts!
        This piece of crap with his little black boards thinks he’s a genious. He has no respect for American history of civil/civic rights. The tennessee plan was employed by over 6 territories( Hawaii,Alaska,Nebraska ,Tennessee,michigan,California) it was a historic milestone in what would later become known as “the admission of the bold, a primer on Alaskan statehood”.
        Well, Glen Beck COMPLETELY savaged this procedure, falsely describing it as a one time disrespectfull tactic used by Tennessee, to”gain statehood without congresional permission”!
        So he, in his biased hatred towards PR, questioned the statehood of all these “tennessee” state.

        “Alguien,por favor, pongale un pamper a Glenn en la boca, porque sigue hablando mierda!

      • I guess many statehooders try to use Gen.Miles’s remarks as a sign that statehood was implied. That is…untill word got out that PRs were mainly tanned and olive mediterranean whites(strike one,because USA was a “nordic” republic) had admixtures of Irish,corsican Italian,and german jews(strike2)
        And heavy african admixtures(strike 3)

  46. on March 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Truly Marko, I do appreciate the history lesson. But I am still waiting for the reference that identifies the “Northamericans” as the ones who sank the USS Maine. After all, everyone but me knows who did it. So please, enlighten me.

    And after “El Grito de Lares” were there other bloody battles with the Spaniards that took place in those 29 years leading up to the Charter of 1897?

    And historically, as Puerto Rico was in the wrong place at the wrong time, so America was in the right place at the right time. Who can really know why things happen the way they do? Maybe fate plays a role.

    And please stop being so presumptuous. I’m not defending the US. What I will defend is the truth. And right now I am of the belief that the invasion of Puerto Rico was brought on by an act of war in the sinking of the USS Maine unless you can prove otherwise.

    • I would tell you to expand your horizons by reviewing information of that era that isn’t bias in favor of anglo/american interest in the western hemisphere or anywhere for that matter. You seem capable of that. Oh, I don’t make any presumptions when it comes to crimes. You seem to believe that if a thief is successful in his objective, then he was in the right place at the right time and the victim was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now where is the logic there? I’ll help you out with a suggested read. For starters how about reviewing a book titled “A People’s History of the United States”, by Howard Zinn. Take your time reading it, and don’t be defensive when you do. You do know the concentration camps of the Nazis did not predate those of the United States, in which a Great Apache War Chief by the name of Geronimo was incarcerated in by U.S. Army Gen. Nelson Miles. Now that is a name that keeps popping up, General Miles; one would think he was a war criminal. Oh, as in my last posting i thought i clearly mentioned that there was a 29 yr struggle against the Monarch and his lackeys. This is too simple, but I will tell you that one of the great heroes of that war was a great Puerto Rican Patriot who was known by the name “Aguila Blanco”; he specialized in picking off the King’s men one by one.Yes sir, there has been a tradition of fighting for freedom & justice for centuries all over the world as in Ireland and India where the tyrant was just as oppressive, but more powerful. In the end everyone has a judgement day including the United states. Yes fate plays a role, but fate sides with justice and justice is patient. Here is an interesting fact, after 114 years of the illegal invasion Boricuas in their Nation and those living in the United States still refer to the Peso (dollar) as the Peso, the Peseta(quarter dollar) as the Peseta and the Chavo (penny) as the Chavo, which of course were the names of the Puerto Rican money during the transitional period of sovereignty in 1897. Our identity, culture & Nation is alive and well.

  47. on March 8, 2012 at 6:13 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    History is what it is, water under the bridge. The more important discussion should be focused on how to release Puerto Rico from it’s colonial status. Gee, does that surprise you I asked that or have you just assumed all along that I was pro-statehood? What I am for is a true free association with the U.S. But as of yet I have seen no constructive progress in preparing a plan that people can understand and know how to vote for it come this November. What I do hear is angry rantings like yourself only dwelling on the past and not looking towards Puerto Rico’s future. Are you a leader? You sound like you could be. What exactly are you doing to move Puerto Rico forward? Are you familiar with the saying, “shit already or get off the pot”?

    • Absolutely NOT! History is not “water under the bridge”, nor is it “what it is”. War criminals have that presumption, but the people of the world do not. Some war criminals never face justice in this world, but in the next; like Joseph Stalin. Justice also delivered the last blow of the “hammer & sickle” to the Stalin empire we knew as the USSR! There are many examples of justice served against tyrants of the world and of tyranny ending because of it. As in Libya and Khadafy, a tyrant to his own people and a killer of commercial civilian airline passengers (TWA). Saddam Heussein is another one. So I would remind you that there is nothing trivial about the war crimes committed by the U.S. in Puerto Rico which began that morning in May of 1897 when US Navy bombs targeted Puerto Rican civilians living in what is today Old San Juan the capital of the newly “Autonomous Isla de Puerto Rico”. The continued occupation today constitutes a war crime. This is not “angry rantings of dwelling on the past”, no sir, it is a testimony to all of you who think that the world or justice will forget what took place in Puerto Rico over the last 114 yrs. It did not forget what took place in Europe during WWII at the hands of Nazis Germany, nor in Irelind for a thousand years at the hands of the English. No one has forgotten! The Germans paid dearly, the English are still paying and the crime of Puerto Rico contiues. The more important discussion is to end the US occupation today, bring in The United Nations to over see the transition of power to the “Puertorriquenos”, which you are not one of “Mr. Harris”, and the restoration of the Autonomous Government of Puerto Rico. Then when power has been transfered, Puerto Ricans can draft their own constitution of their own thoughts and not of your US Congress. A Constitution of laws drafted by Puertorriquenos and not by conditions of your US Congress or your anglo culture. Then Bruce Harris you and anyone can live in a Puerto Rico of Puertorriquenos, by Puertorriquenos and for Puertorriquenos, that would be justice served finally. Nothing else will resolve the colonial problem of Puerto Rico, which was not created by the “ballot box” nor by an “election”; so it will not be resolved by either. The US has a duty and that is to get the hell out of Borinquen. We have a crime seen here, so don’t try to cover it up by talking about celebrations of elections or plebcites. And yes I have heard of the phrase, “shit already or get off the pot”, but perhaps you should direct that question to the US government which has been using its military, financial and other covert powers to sit on a tiny, but brave Puerto Rican People for 114 years.

      • on March 19, 2012 at 2:06 pm Bruce R. Harris

        “So I would remind you that there is nothing trivial about the war crimes committed by the U.S. in Puerto Rico which began that morning in May of 1897 when US Navy bombs targeted Puerto Rican civilians living in what is today Old San Juan the capital of the newly “Autonomous Isla de Puerto Rico”.” Marko

        You mean where the Spanish fort sit’s at the port today, and cannons were fired at U.S. warships in 1898? Why did you not mention that small fact? Because it doesn’t fit your warped view of those times?

        And what of your war crimes when you slaughtered the native Taino indians and forced your language and culture on them? Will you not also be judged for your war crimes? You should really make sure you are without sin before you start pointing fingers at others.

        Puerto Rico has no real strategic value for the US, but what keeps Congress from making a decision to leave is the indecision by the Puerto Ricans themselves. And you and your beliefs make up about 4% of the voters here who are die hard independents. And marko, no one in their right mind buys a car first and then draws up a contract. “Then when power has been transfered, Puerto Ricans can draft their own constitution of their own thoughts and not of your US Congress.” Why not start drafting a constitution now so Puerto Ricans can see what they would be buying into, or are you afraid they won’t like what you have to offer? So again, shit or get off the pot! Don’t just rant about the past but start doing something to change the future instead of waiting for another master, as in the UN, to hold your hand and guide you through the process. Be your own masters! Americans, and not just whites, are really tired of hearing you whine.

      • I think your stuck on stupid bruce! Of course the cannons from the fort fired on your invading criminal cohorts. If you would take a little time to research the Autonomous Charter of 1897 you would see that provisions were made to have a Puerto Rican Militia trained by the remaining spanish forces to defend the New Autonomous Island Govt & it’s People from criminal elements who had a history of attacking Puerto Rico. So the only thing “warped” is your racist attitude towards the fact that Puerto Ricans kicked your racist navy out of Vieques a few yrs ago and your next. I bet you stand out, don’t you ? You should always be careful when your in someone else’s country mamao bruce. Your an ignoramus and it bother’s you that your grandfather’s empire is coming apart. “You ain’t seen nothing yet”, wait til the Mexicans begin the “reconquista” of their great grandfather’s land; they are right behind the Chinese in population growth. Your time is up. Your a coward and you know it. So go to hell you damn gringo!

      • Didn’t the Autonomous Charter establish Puerto Rico as a province of Spain, though? I’m not justifying the invasion that the American people in charge of the US government back in the late 19th century made because the ulterior motives seem obvious in retrospect. Those same people that advised for and signed off on the invasion probably forgot that during the American Revolutionary War that Puerto Ricans fought against the British in Pensacola, Florida (more ulterior motives on the part of Spain, probably).

        But, umm.. I’m an American of African descent who doesn’t own a residence in Puerto Rico so folks probably won’t care about this post. But I served with Puerto Ricans that have family that lives on the islands and I pray that, whatever happens, it works out for the best in the long run, because I would think that most Puerto Ricans are more focused on the present and the future than outraged about some 19th century Generals, Admirals and Politicians being jealous of the other colonial powers. The ones in power have been doing stuff like this for centuries. Millenia, even. I’m definitely not trying to write off any injustices, of course.

        Anyhow, I mainly want to say that I also don’t think Puerto Rico will become a state, especially with the things the contradictory groups have to say these days. I personally feel that if statehood were chosen it wouldn’t help Puerto Rico out, given the current state of things. At least not for a few decades.

        Other than that, who wants to have politicians coming to their islands every week, trying to tell them without saying it outright that they have to assimilate?

        I probably won’t post here again because, as I mentioned, I’m not Puerto Rican, myself, but this site has definitely piqued my interest and made me want to research not only the history of the islands – social, political, and economical – but the process of becoming a state. Because I’m sure I sounded very uninformed (which I am) and probably pointless.

        I hope everyone is doing alright and down the line will remember not to say “I told you so.”

      • Thanks for taking the time to post and comment!

  48. Thank you for this insightful post. I continue to advocate for the idea that the issue of statehood should be kept separate and apart from the issue of how the U.S. Congress continues to disenfranchise more than 2 million American voters from voting for their own President of the United States…

    • Thank YOU for commenting!

    • on March 9, 2012 at 1:49 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

      I order to vote for the President of the United States you have to pay federal taxes. “No taxation without representation”, as in “you gotta pay if you wanna play”. We’re lucky if we get most everyone here in Puerto Rico to pay their fair share of island taxes.

    • Julia, you may vote for president of the U.S. with an absentee ballot if you have a residence in the U.S. There are many American Citizens who (like you) live abroad and mail in there absentee ballots. Find a state, make it your primary resident and if you wish, return to Puerto Rico to live and you’ll always be able to vote for president. That’s how I voted when I lived while working for my company in South korea. We will never permit our representatives in both houses of congress to permit you to influence our federal elections. We are memebers of both political parties, democrat & republican and we will not tolerate the destruction of our Anglo culture which speaks English. We have given you over a hundred years to submit, but instead you rebel. You continue to speak your former master’s language and demand that we accept it. Never! We have enough problems with the illegals running around here refusing to acclimate and we sure as hell won’t permit you to do as well. If we are not careful you’ll have “our” Congress speaking in your former master’s tongue. When the time comes, we will decide if you qualify to be a state and we reserve the right decline and reject your application. Honestly, you folks aren’t even warm. Besides, we are making a nice profit the ways things are set up right now; and i’m sure none of you are starving. By the way, your insular governor sunk Mit Romneys’ chances for the oval office, he isn’t a real conservative. Why would we swap one liberal for another, especially one who is inclined to cost us over 20 billion dollars a year for what would be the first foreign speaking state. That is right, we rather tolerate Barrack for other 5 yrs than “Ken Barbie” for 4. Oh, your governor said if we don’t give him statehood “we will go another way”, I don’t think so. If we have done anything right in puertorico it is that there is no consensus on what to do; you are divided. You too will be wondering in the dessert for another 40 years.

      • Most Puerto Ricans who live on the island do not have residency in the US. It is is not as easy as you suggest. Not even close.

      • Vast majority of PRicans claim residency in PR so they can’t vote in national elections.

      • Puerto Rico’s present “unincorporated status” is a legacy of that 1920’s know nothing “good whites vs lesser whites” /eugenics/ yellow peril( I’ve never met a yellow person, btw) mentality .

  49. on March 9, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “That is…untill word got out that PRs were mainly tanned and olive mediterranean whites(strike one,because USA was a “nordic” republic) had admixtures of Irish,corsican Italian,and german jews(strike2)
    And heavy african admixtures(strike 3)” Louis Arroyo

    Gee Louis, sounds like you just described how many americans look. Or are you just blind to that fact?

    • I’M NOT TALKIN ABOUT DIVERSE WHITE AMERICA IN 2012! Read it again. I’m talking about white “what today is called mainstream” America of the 1890’s!
      At the time most “white ” Americans were of Brittish/Scottish/French/Norwegan/German/Dutch/Austrian/sweede/Denmark. Basically Blond blue eyed Nordics of NW Europe.
      The swarthy /olive to bronze tanned Italians,Poles,Jews,Spaniards,Portuguese,all seen as “inferior alien races”
      The Irish, despite being half Nordic, were excluded for their Roman Catholicism. Their freckles, a unique Irish feature resulting from ancient Nordic gaelic celtic/mediterranean mixtures, was seen as “colored contamination”
      So you see, Puerto Rico receiving thousands of Irish,Jews, Italians, cathilic Germans, in addition to the Spanish/Taino/african mix only led to PRs being seen as “mongrels” unworthy of statehood or even incorporated territory. BTW I’m a “white” Puerto Rican American,Republican, and don’t subscribe to victimhood. I’m simply relaying what I’ve read or heard inthe past.

  50. on March 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “At the time most “white ” Americans were of Brittish/Scottish/French/Norwegan/German/Dutch/Austrian/sweede/Denmark. Basically Blond blue eyed Nordics of NW Europe.” Arroyo

    So if not for these folks who were the ruling majority and therefore the deciders of who would be able to enter the US, the “inferior alien races’ would never have been allowed in. So just what is your beef anyway?

    • No beef at all.
      I don’t know if you’re aware, or playing games, but you MUST know that the “anglo Americans” SUCCEEDED IN CLOSING THE DOOR TO the south and eastern Europeans. That’s why I support a freeze on ALL immigration to allow hispanic Americans to grow, outnumber the immigrant ones,thus assimilating. Its not entirely racist, the US did it to Europe.
      In 1925, or so, Congress with strong backing from “know nothings”party, passed the “National Origins Quota act”. The idea was that the largest ancenstrys in the US (blonde blue eyed northwest types) got to continue to come in large numbers. The Italians,Poles, Greeks and east Europeans were limited to a couple of hundreds! Arabs and Indians(India) were excluded. An Indian American succesfully sued to get hindu immigrans allowed into America, under the premise that THEY were also Aryans. The Supreme court validated the Aryan nature of Indians, but told him to his face…” Yes, but we want BLONDE ARYANS in America!!
      Basically it banned “brunnete” Mediterraneans, Poles, Russians(I know, many are blond, but racism is blind to facts) Italians, basically the people we now call “white ethnics”.
      Just sharing one of the “racist reasons” I’ve encountered as to why USCitizenship=incorporation for Alaska,Hawaii,,as the Supreme court ruled in the pre Balzac cases, yet the same court just a couple of years later(less than 6) ruled that US citizenship, in PR’s case did not mean incorporation!
      That same court, by judicial fiat,or tiranny, invented the concept of “unincorporated territory”. Before Balzac/insular cases, there was no such thing as unincorporated territory. That’s. Why general miles, probably meant it when he said,”we have come to bless you with our institutions and free government” . General miles probably died beliving/believing that that PR and any territory at the time, would be states, or part of another.

      • on March 13, 2012 at 10:50 pm Bruce R. Harris

        I have to throw the bullshit flag down on this post Luis. You can’t prove any of what you say regarding banning certain immigrants. And the sad part is some readers will actually believe the crap you write and spread else where as the gospel truth. So just quit with the bull crap.

  51. A couple of developments this week.
    1. Pedro Pierluisi, Puerto Rico’s Resident Commisioner in Congress, has asked the Supreme court to revisit the balzac insular cases. Particularly, to reverse Puerto Ricos condition as an unincorporated Territory, and declare the status as unconstitutional in Puerto Rico’s case. His reasoning…
    US citizenship. Prior to Balzac, the granting of US citizenship by birth to any territory was the main definition of an incorporated territory enroute to statehood. The Supreme court said that US Citizenship DID NOT alter PR’s condition as an “unincorporated territory” the court went on to define this new judicially made status, as territories n ot deemed viable. For statehood.

    All other territories since, have been validated as incorporated by citizenship. PR was clearly discriminated against, by a court that described PRs as “mongrels” incapable of self government or statehood. (Carlos romero Barcello read a copy of this letter in the capitolio recently)as proof that the court at the time was racist.
    Second Puerto rico is officially listed as under article 3 of the Constitution for Federal Courts in PR. So, for judicial purposes, PR is “incorporated”
    Will the court take it up? Or stay away…no word yet.
    Next up are the Republican primaries, on march 18. Last time a pathethic 200 voted(vs 200,000in democrat primary) then again, no republican showed. Puerto Rico did not matter because McCain already had clinched the nomination just about. During a past tv debate, romney said he would support statehood if it won, Newt wanted to say something, but the stupid moderator moved on to another topic!! Ron Paul almost laughed at the thought of statehood, the racist fu** he is.
    Now, with 28 electoral delegates, only Rick Santorum said he was coming to PR. Romney could care less. BUT, now that Santorum said he’s coming Wednesday march 14 to PR, and leaving thursda. ROMNEY all of a sudden wants to play “ME TOO” coming Thursday the 15, and staying till saturday( a deliberate move to outdo Santorum’s stay)
    Will Newt now show? Will that Racist prick Ron Paul(seen his racist newsletters?) Show his face? Hmmmmmmmmmm

  52. At Bruce R Harris!
    You should know about BULLSHIT flags, you have them all! I’m making thing up. I’M MAKING THINGS UP? Obviously you are a pompous know it all who refuses to listen to others, but MUST accept the sh*t out of yours! Either you’re under 30 years old, or an old man full of crap! Don’t bother posting back! I see you did not give me the “reply option”. You thought it would stop me? Alguien pongale un pamper en la boca de Bruce, porque habla mucha mierda! I’m sure you got that one, “Bruce from PR”/

    Its called the NATIONAL ORIGINS ACT OF1924/ The johnson reed act !!!!!!!!
    I’M MAKING THINGS UP? Well, since your last name is “Harris”,I’m sure your ethnic grooup was NOT affected. That’s why you don’t give a s****!

  53. on March 14, 2012 at 12:08 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Luis, my ancestor’s came over to the new world 6 months after the arrival of the Mayflower. They were from England and Roman Catholics so you can see where the disagreement between them and the Pilgrims forced them to leave Massachusetts and move to Rhode Island. Unless you were a White Anglo Saxon Protestant (WASP) you were discriminated against for many years until the first Catholic President was elected in 1960.

    As for not giving you the courtesy of a “reply option”, I didn’t know I could control that. I have no reason to try and prevent you from rebutting my claims. Knock yourself out.

  54. Join as a state and pay your fair share or go your own way and fend for yourself. Doesnt matter to the U.S. just cut the crap of a welfare state (commonwealth).

    • Are you listening “dddd”? We said no! Hell no! and No. What don’t you understand about No? WE DON’T WANT YOUR DAMN STATEHOOD! Now go tell your politicians, your president and the devil, that if it takes another 114 years or even a thousand years (as in the republic of ireland) we will not let you swallow us… We will always be Boricuas, not Northamericans and by the way; the “federal aid”/ “welfare state” your government sends to Puerto Rico is dwarfed by the huge profits your government’s colonial monopoly rakes in every year since that infamous day of the illegal invasion. You see, an empire knows that if an occuppied people are not hungry they won’t rebel. That is why your government sends that money to it’s lackey insular government in Puerto Rico which it has established over the last 114 years. Sorry but, we don’t feel guilty at all. You should.

  55. on March 18, 2012 at 2:53 am | Reply Margeret hensley

    Puerto Rico , if it became a state , would be No.1 be over run with Conservative Whites. No. 2 Have it’s Non-White Citizens treated like dirt. No.3 have to replace it’s current laws with “American Ones” No.3 Have to have English as an Official one thus losing it’s current one (very sad) and would definitely have to surrender it’s police force to an White controlled one and i can guarantee you will lose ALL of your rights as Puerto Ricans. I can just see all the Glen Becks, Rush Limbaugh’s, and Tea Party’s just rushing over there and changing VERY thing! You will lose your “pride” your “independence” and your right to chose your own destiny! Americans will stop at nothing to make your home “their” home and pay you next to nothing just to mop their floors and pick their crops. Now tell me ..is that what you REALLY want? America can’t even treat it’s own non-white Citizens like human beings, just imagine what would happen if you became a state and they now have the legal right to just take over!

      • on March 19, 2012 at 1:38 pm Bruce R. Harris

        I wonder just how Puerto Rico would handle immigrants coming here illegally and who want to change the language and culture? All I can say is get used to it because it is going to happen some day. No country can preserve it’s language and culture forever, no matter how hard you try. If Puerto Rico does turn it’s economy around and becomes an attractive place for foreigners then they will come for a better life. So be very careful what you wish for.

  56. 1) I’m “gringo” as you so politely put it.
    2) I am a resident of the US.
    3) I neither know, nor care who Glenn Beck is, nor his opinions.

    Bottom line, the man is a TV personality, not unlike Geraldo, Oprah, Rosie O’Donnell or any one of a number of them. So, unless he is an elected official, who cares what he thinks? His opinion matters on ANY topic as much as yours, Mr. Owner. “Oh, he’s influential”, pout some. I call BULL. ANY and EVERY television personality loves to think they influence the movers and shakers, and rarely do any of them, save for the people who watch them and believe whatever gobbledygook they spout. It’s my understanding that this Beck person is not exactly widely respected. I’m also sure he doesn’t care, because people like you and your followers, Mr. Owner go and claim one person’s opinion and the opinion of every single person, which is what Mr. Beck wants, because it’s Mr. Beck’s job to be controversial. That gains RATINGS, which is what every television and radio station owner wants from their personalities. It’s why WWE and Howard Stern are so successful.

    I definitely see a lot of name calling here, and a lot of posts accusing anyone who does not believe or side with the blog owner here is “drinking Kool-Aid” or “gringo” or any number of other epithets. Real classy.

    Don’t know Puerto Rico’s economy, and don’t care. IF Puerto Rico desires statehood, so be it. IF it wants independence, do be it. If it wants to be called, “Joe’s Service Station”, so be it.

    With regard to the “changing flag”, if that isn’t the single most ridiculous thing I have heard in this post, I don’t know what is. I don’t recall which person mentioned it, and I’m far too lazy to scroll back up through this mess of juvenile name-calling to find it again, but the U.S. flag design has changed multiple times over the centuries. It hasn’t changed since Hawaii & Alaska because THE U.S. HASN’T INCORPORATED ANY NEW STATES. Duh! If there were any new states, then the group that is involved with the change of the flag design would have to change the flag design again. Duh! It has nothing to do with “The U.S. would never accept a flag with 51 stars”. Why not? What evidence backs up that ridiculous claim? Who provides you with that fact? Oh, it’s your opinion? Then it’s not a fact. Opinions are not facts, no matter how hard people wish. There seems to always be the problem of people confusing the two.

    I enjoy what Mr. Harris posted in his final post that Puerto Rico would end up similar to the U.S. in terms of immigration if it is perceived as being attractive to foreigners, then YES, people will come to it, and slowly, the country’s culture will be integrated with the other cultures, as what happened (and does still) in the U.S.

    With regard to the “national language”, the point of NOT having a national language is so that immigrants can still retain a part of their original national identity.

    However, it should be noted that when the first wave of immigrants came to the new land (America), many were so grateful to be in this wonderful new land that they freely traded their original names in order to take on a name that was more reflective of their new home, and made it a point to learn the language of the new country they were in, embracing their new country with as much love as their old one.

    I don’t feel that changing one’s name, or the language they speak “erases” or “ignores” anyone’s national identity, heritage, history, or anything else.

    Judging from what I have seen in this blog already, as I do not agree with someone else here (don’t know who disagrees, don’t give a fish (a carp is a fish, you figure out the rest) )., so I am sure I will be attacked and called names and say I’m drinking Kool-Aid. I’ll correct you right now. I don’t drink Kool-Aid. I drink FLAVOR-Aid! Beyond that, don’t give a hoot one way or the other. Stumbled here by accident looking for the year Puerto Rico formally became a U.S. territory. I have minimal to no interest in politics of any sort, and slightly more in geography and history, but not enough interest to engage in childish name-calling about it.

  57. on March 25, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Reply james madisom

    How is Puerto Rico a country no president no currency what do they have again a governor. Ya can’t be Puerto ricans if ya have American citizenship and the first thing ya do is go get government help. Go get a job in Puerto Rico if your island is so great

    • Country is an affection term for the land of your parents, or yourself. Example, I’m from Texas country,or she’s fromTennessee country. But people have a habit of confusing it with ” soveregn Nationhood” It can also mean “nation” when describing foreign countries not part of the one you find youeself in.
      The PPD and PIP party uses “pais/country” as “nationhood” to feed a sense of seperate nationhood, while the PNP statehood party uses “pais/country” as a local designation for PR,within USA.
      As for “can’t be Puerto Rican and American citizen” shows a little ignorance on the subject. Legally, anyone living in Puerto Rico is a Puerto Rican,just as I am a New Jerseyan,He’s a New Yorker, Californian,Hawaiian. But overiding that is our US citizenship, which goes for all states and territories.
      Hope this helped.

      • You miss the point… big time. Puerto Rican has a rich and long history as a country, to compare it to a state is too simplistic. It is a complex relationship that needs definition and it will after the November vote, but as to someone who was born in PR, lived there and goes back there, it is my homeland, my place of birth, not the land of my parents. It is my land.

  58. Have no idea how I ended up here. As an American, I hope Puerto Ricans do not hate us. Got nothing against you, hope you got nothing against me. If you want to be a state, become a state. If you want independence, become independent. You will not lose your identity, language or culture either way. The only thing 95% of Americans care about is that if you come to this country, you do your best to assimilate to our culture. I dont care if you are white, black, brown, purple or blue, if you speak Chinese, Spanish or German. Do your best to learn our culture, the English language and you will get by just fine. I will let you in on a little secret, American people generally dont care about other people’s problems. We have enough of our own. You want to join us as a state, welcome aboard. You want independence, good luck. I will still vacation on your beautiful island. FYI-Hermano Latino is the smartest man on here. he gets it

  59. I heard of a new poll on the PR newpaper “El Nuevo Dia” that seems to show a near majority for INDEPENDENCE!
    Now el nuevo dia is an anti statehood and pro PPD paper owned by the Ferrer family(pretty ironic since Luis Ferre was a statehooder and PNP)
    Anyway, It shows Democrat& PPD’s Garcia Padilla beating Republican/pnp’s Luis Fortuño. For Governorship.
    But here is where it gets interesting…….
    On question one(maintain territory or not)
    69% yes 29% no (clearly a punishment vote agaist the statehood party)

    Now, keep in mi nd that the commonwealth party/ppd asked ITS followers to boycott the second part(if you vote yes, the second part is unnesessary)
    Yet, these were the results….
    ELA. Soberano46%!!

    THAT’S 51% for independence.
    How is this possible? Well first of all, its all about english! Most PPD’s don’t know english,can’t read english to see for themselves that what the PPD is selling to them as. Estado Libre Asociado Soberano is being called FREE ASSOCIATION in the US congress and Media, because, THAT’S WHAT IT IS.
    Its the same game with the PPD calling the territorry “ELA” instead of Mancominidad”,the proper spanish name fo r Commonwealth. Either voters of the PPD party are being missled by the words “ELA” in ELA soberano. They must be thinking its the same commonweath with permanent union and citizenship with USA.
    But keep in mind that El nuevo Dia has a following mainly of estadolibristas and pro independence, while statehooders prefer Wapa radio, notiuno, and EL Vocero newspaper. Also many PPD voters agreed to not answer the second status question after voting “yes” to continue the present status in question one, thus artificially inflating the seperatist faction in the PPD party.

    • Of course, makes sense to us. What you fail to understand is that the illusion of statehood is an illusion. In the end, Puerto Ricans will vote against it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

  60. The problem with Polls is that their audience is already biased. For example, a vocero poll will show a statehood lead. The recent “nuevo dia poll” shows Free Association/ELA soberano with more votes than statehood. A polll by a pro independence firm will show a split between those who are hard core, voting for straight independence, and those. “Watermelons”(green outside,red inside) who always join the PPD commonwealth to prevent statehood from getting 50%+1.

    A joint poll by ALL PR newspapers and having all results averaged out, would give a more clear picture.

    • FYI, latest Vocero poll is not a CLEAR LEAD as you suggest. It is neck and neck with ELA soberano and people have been commenting that the ELA soberano movement has gained so much support in a year.

      • Yup,ya parece inevitable. The funny thing is the statehooders are the tools for independence. Their trickery in having a yes or no vote for commowwealth, has backfired on them.
        If the vote no, and “no” gets 55% with the PNP and PIP vote, and statehood fails to see 50%+1, if you are a Congressman your interpretation is that they have voted by slim majority to end the Commonwealth,and have again(for the last time) rejected statehood. But wait, Free Association got 46%, and Independence got 5%……..51%!!!….YES!!!! YABA DABA DOOO! We can finally cut them loose, send these redults to the UN,

      • Typical lack of strategy, but the fact is that the Governor’s political life is based on these two votes. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if he begs Romney for a VP nod! LOL

      • The big push now is to force Congress to make this final vote binding.

  61. on March 29, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “A referendum on the status of the island will be held in Puerto Rico on 6 November 2012.[1] There will be two questions: The first question will ask voters whether they prefer “the status quo or a change in status”, while the second questions asks whether voters would prefer independence, statehood or free association in the case of a status change.” Wikipedia

    “On question one(maintain territory or not)
    69% yes 29% no (clearly a punishment vote agaist the statehood party)” Arroyo

    If that is the tally come November then it is game over for Puerto Rico as congress will see this as a very clear mandate that Puerto Ricans want to stay a colony. Clearly a punishment for both statehood and free association (sovereignty).

    • We disagree, that is why ALAS is growing and gaining the support it will need to win the second option.

      • on March 29, 2012 at 9:22 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Do you really think there is enough time to change the 69% who voted for the status quo by November? It’s already April and I bet most people here in Puerto Rico have no clue who ALAS is let alone what a Free Associated PR would be like. Good luck. I think you’re going to need lot’s of it.

  62. Yes, Bruce, I do think there is time, once people connect the dots.

  63. on March 30, 2012 at 9:42 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Maybe, if you had spent more time using your web site to educate people concerning ALAS and what a Free Association would look like. And had worked with other Latino sites to do the same, then yes, you might have had a shot at getting people to connect the dots by November. But you let the clock run down and wasted too much time on other less constructive issues such as immigration reform which does not affect Puerto Ricans directly. There is a time for everything, and this past year was the time for referendum education through social networks. But you missed the opportunity to help make a difference Julito. If you had expected Puerto Rico’s leaders to do the educating, then you are blinded to their own personal agendas which is not beneficial to Puerto Rico.

  64. on March 30, 2012 at 11:21 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    You do know Julito the first vote is the critical vote. If the majority of people vote “yes” to keep the status quo then congress will not even look to see the results of the second vote. The first question will provide only two choices; yes means remain the same and no means a vote for real change. If the majority do not vote “no” to the first question then it is game over. Congress will not even bother looking at the second vote. The second vote will be irrelevant.

  65. Libertad! Libertad! Libertad!

  66. For those of you with android of other smartphones, you can hear up to the minute news and Music from PuertoRico anywhere. You can also hear AM/FM plus podcasts. The App is called “tune in Radio” its free(you don’t need pro version) go to “browse”/”by location”/N america/caribbean/Puerto Rico. Or just type the stations call letters,in this case 680 WAPA AM. “Cadena wapa” All status talk.(along with “NOTI UNO”630 AM.
    Well it appears that Ruben Berrios,of the independence party,is eyeing the ESTADO LIBRE ASSOCIADO SOBERANO votes in order to add them to the independence column. If ELA Soberano(soveregn commonwealth) gets more votes than statehood,the 5% hardcore independentistas ,combined with the ELASoberano will top 51%. Berrios believes that Congress will demand a supermajority for statehood(75%),but just 50.1% for independence.
    Make no mistake about it, ELASoberano is a deceitfull name,tricking the english illeterate PR’s into voting for it, thinking its the “improved commonwealth within the US of years past”
    In reality Puerto Ricans who read english, and the Statehood,independence parties know full well that ELASoberano(soveregn Commonwealth) is literally FreeAssociation (independence with friendship associated treaty).
    Like blind sheep being led to the slaughter,the voters of the “popular” democratic party are following PPD marching orders to vote “yes” and “soveregn commonwealth” to “punish” Gov. Luis Fortuño.
    The statehooders are warning the PPD voting base that ELA Soberano is really independence/free association. But the english illiterate Populares will not let a statehooder”Fortunista” tell them what to do!
    In the end, I believe Congress will conclude that….its better to grant independence,take the 3,000,000 statehooders and hippocrite populares voters, let the states absorb them(after all a one time wave of almost 4,000,000 Ricans is nothing compared to the yearly mexican torrent)
    Rather than make the island a state, and pump billions more into welfare when half the nuyoricans take off to retire there.

  67. on April 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Interesting take Luis. But where does Berrios get the notion that congress will accept just a 50.1% vote for Enhanced Commonwealth? I believe congress will require a super majority for any change to take place. After all, statehooders have more voters in the states than any other party here. They won’t allow for such a lop sided decision.

  68. on April 27, 2012 at 9:17 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    I hear many people talk about why Puerto Rico will never become the 51st state. One of the main reasons is due to cultural differences, a main one being the language. But being from an area in Puerto Rico that is pro-statehood I hear many who would be willing to accept english as the main language spoken to become a state. I’m not saying making english the official language of Puerto Rico. Just place more emphasis on teaching english in schools and breakdown the language barrier that is preventing many PR’s from fully understanding the critical issues that exist in deciding the best political status for Puerto Rico.

    I also believe before any major change in status takes place, more time is needed to allow more Puerto Ricans to learn english so they can make an informed decision that will effect the island for possibly centuries to come.

    • I don’t think Congress cares whether or not they speak english,if they choose to grant independence. However, there is debate on whether the US citizenship in Puerto Rico is Constitutional vs Statutory. In the latter 20th century, Congress included Puerto Rico’s federal courts under article 3 of the US constitution. Article 4 deals with unincorporated territories and possessions. This confusion stems from law 600, which authorized a Puerto Rico constitution to be of a republican form of government,structured as a state, yet OFFICIALLY NOT changing PR’s as a non state “unincorporated” territorry.
      The PNP/New Progressive Party correctly states that Puerto Rico is an Unincorporated territory,under the Constitution’s territorrial clause. Congress can impose and take away citizenship,taxes,impose language requirements. Yet Congress won’t enforce english as it did decades earlier after 1898. Is it beca use Congress no longer can? Is the PPD/popular democrat party right in saying that US citize ship is already permanent? Our union is permanent?
      Has the PPD lied with the Feds to hide the possibility that PR is already incorporated? All these developments are post Balzac insular cases.
      If this is true,the PPD are deceivers by design, falsely claiming they are a “free associated state”. Everytime statehood comes up to a vote, the PPD suddenly discovers the american flags claiming to be the truer yankees,protecting America from the danger of a 51st state! While defending the “welfare” Commonwealth. The PPD likes to claim that when it comes to US citizenship/union w US, the statehooders got it wrong concerning that Congress can take away.
      What does the PPD know about the current status thay won’t tell us?
      Pierluisi and McKlintock ,both PNP,have asked the US Supreme Court to revisit BALZAC,to clarify whether PR was discriminated when Balzac stated that US citizenship did not mean incorporation,even tho the same court ruled it did for all other territories, including Alaska and Hawaii. Also, Puerto Ricos gradual inclusion in article 3 incorporated territory(article 3 US district courts, naturalized citizenship as os 1947,an upgrading from the statutory limited citizenship granted/imposed in 1917.
      Its risky! If the US supreme Court votes that Puerto Rico has evolved into an incorporated territory,its a victory for the PPD/and Statehooders. A victory for PPD because permanent Commonwealth is now possible. A victory for PNP,because PR is “incorporated on its way to Statehood either soon or 100 years from now.
      BUT! If the Supreme Court rules Puerto Rico is still an unincorporated territorry,it could VACATE all laws passed since Balzac to treat PR as a near state, claiming its unconstitutional to give PR statehood benefits without being one. This is a victory for independence, for the outrage in PR will lead many disillusioned residents to conclude statehood/permanent commonwealth will never happen. We shall see. No word yet if Supremes will review PR Balzac cases again.

      • on April 28, 2012 at 10:06 am Bruce R. Harris

        Hello Luis; I think you misunderstood me concerning english. If Puerto Rico were to become a state english would be imposed in schools. What I hear from Puerto Rico’s leadership is this would be unacceptable to the majority since it is not part of their culture. But has a vote ever been taken to see if this is true? I believe the leadership here in PR and the US will not push congress to accept the referendum until congress agrees to the cultural demand of allowing spanish to be the primary language if statehood is voted for. I think a vote is needed to see just how many people believe statehood with a country (USA) they love is more important than language.

      • Folks, may I point out to My People and USAmericans, that in English, “English” is capitalized. The same with Spanish, Japanese, Urdu and Klingon. In short, any language. Simple, really. It’d be nice if We and some of the USAmericans posting here learned that.

        As to why I capitalize any self-reference, the answer is obvious: I deserve it.

  69. on April 28, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Rule 13
    Capitalize words derived from proper nouns.

    I must take English and math.
    English is capitalized because it comes from the proper noun England, but math does not come from Mathland.

    I knew that Gil. Sometimes it’s just plain laziness that I don’t. Thanks.

    • Ah yes, these sneaky pervasive undercapitilization habits…..Thanks for the Wake up, MR Genius. 😉
      BTW All 3 times I’ve been to Puerto Rico, except for the extreme eastern Puerto Rico where you can get English language FM/AM from the Virgin Islands(USVI)
      English language broadcasts in PR are NONE EXISTENT. The closest thing is la”mega 106.9fm” with its US top 40 format, but its VJs only speak Spanish! Despite the fact that 15-20+% are fully bilingual and or Nuyorican.
      But here in NewYork-Newark Metro, with 8million New Yorkers (city) plus 4million in North Jersey+2million in CT, the Spanish speaking audience is less than 10%. Yet we have 93.1 amor fm/96.3fm la calle/97.1fm la mega/105.9fm hd radio (hd2)/92.7fm Mexican/and a host of Spanish AMs.
      There is no excuse for the absence of any English stations in Puerto Rico! I’m sure its got something to do with the Populares banning english everytime they win power,but I can’t see how they can stop them.
      If English is non negociable for the statehooders, then para el cara*o! Grant them independence.
      I bet even quebec has a few english FMs in Montreal!

  70. on April 28, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    I really have a hard time understanding why there are no English stations here except for the ones broadcast by the military over AFRTS. If for no other reason than to provide emergency information to non-speaking Spanish residents and tourists. There seems to be such an extreme resistance to even acknowledge Americans live here who do not speak Spanish. One day I spoke to a young guy who came with this father to do some work on my home and he told me all of his friends admonished anyone caught speaking English. About the only station I listen to is a jazz station because I like jazz and the DJ’s speak very softly. Would it really hurt the culture here if English was accepted a bit more? I thought we were all Americans, yet I feel like such an outsider who is not welcomed here.

  71. What going to happen with the IRS, Puerto Rican company. When we become a State 51?

    • We will pay more LOL.

      • on May 8, 2012 at 8:22 am Bruce R. Harris

        And if Puerto Rico becomes independent the people will pay more in taxes to support the government because there will be so few private companies in which the government could collect corporate taxes and no more subsidies from the US tax payers. So maybe being a Commonwealth isn’t such a bad idea after all. Money coming in from US tax payers and no federal taxes. And you can elect a governor that is from Puerto Rico unlike what Spain was offering in the “Charter of 1897”. And the only people who are pushing to get Puerto Ricans to change their culture and language are “New Ricans” who want Puerto Rico to become a state. Not even the PNP party leaders are pushing for English to be taught in schools. So be careful for what you wish for, you just might get it. And then regret it later.

  72. You are mistaken! We will never regret defending our Puerto Rican culture, which is a part of the “Hispanic culture” of the western hemisphere and not of the anglo culture of the western hemisphere. We know of the crimes you S.O.B. committed here in Puerto Rico and we will never forget. We are not americans, we are Boricuas and you are a foreigner here, you S.O.B. We won’t regret anything. The Charter of 1897 was not given, it was earned. Puerto Rico will always have a relationship with Espania because we are family. Families fight and make up and that is what happened during the period from 1868 thru 1897. Just as all of “Spanish speaking America” will always have a “family” relationship with Espania. We are blood and you gringos are not !

  73. on May 11, 2012 at 11:48 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Funny how you don’t mention the Taino’s who were here long before the Spanish Conquerers. You Inno are also a foreigner on this island. And I bet if there were any Taino’s left they would remind you of the atrocities committed by your ancestors.

    The one thing we can all depend on is change. The world and all of it’s cultures are changing as the world get’s smaller. I’ve accepted the fact that change is taking place in the US. I suggest you accept the change that is happening here as well. The Spanish-American war has been over for a long time now, so get over it and move on with your life.

    • Listen gringo, my life is going well. We Boricuas are the Tainos, because we are a product of the forced integration or rapes of centuries ago. You think wagon loads of “spanish families” landed in Borinken and created the Puerto Rican People? Your stupid! The world is not getting smaller, but you gringos are. You got to admit, the Mexicans really pegged you good with that name: gringos. Speaking of which, that is who you should be concerned about. The Mexicans have a plan for you. You should be concerned with the “reconquest” and not the “conquest”. I hope they treat you as well as you treated them, but that wouldn’t be good, I suppose.

  74. on May 25, 2012 at 9:43 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Yes I do know boat loads of Spanish colonist landed on Borinken and colonized Borinken under the direction of Ponce de Leon. So how is your Taino language skills? They don’t teach Taino in school, so do you practice it at home? Do you still practice your indian culture? You must really hate the Spanish. I bet you want to cut your tongue out every time you speak your masters language.

    If the Mexicans treat Americans the way they treat their illegal immigrant brothers and sisters coming into their country from Central and South America, then we are most certainly screwed. But they will most likely kill themselves off with the drug war before they get to deep into the US.

    Ignorant people like yourself are the real endangered species.

    Besides being a racist name, do you know how Gringo came about?

    • Tu eres mas pendejo que mandarlo hacer! Escucha bien gringo, tu nunca vas a tragar a nuestra patria. Nunca!

      • on May 27, 2012 at 5:06 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Sí, sólo otro Español Conquistador esconderse en la ropa Taino. En cuanto a tragar su país, usted tiene más de 100 años demasiado tarde para detenerlo. Y los Estadounidenses no lo están tragando. Sus compatriotas Puertorriqueños están dando libremente a los EE.UU. para una vida mejor que se le ofreció por parte de España.

      • Se puede discutir en este blog, pero favor de no insultar. Gracias.

      • on May 28, 2012 at 12:50 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Julito would like for you to stop calling me a stupid gringo Inno!

  75. on May 27, 2012 at 5:20 pm | Reply Luis Arroyo

    The pro statehood 680 WAPA AM has been warning listeners of the dangers of “voting against what they have”(one foot inside the US). Warning that if PRcans vote NO to the commonwealth, yet statehood loses, Congress may interpret it as a vote for independence.
    The Commonwealth party has for years proposed an Illegal,unconstitutional “enhanced Commonwealth” with both statehood and independence powers,internacional treaties/UN Olympics.
    Yet the polls on PPD voters reveal that 79% want the US Presidential vote,80% want ppermanent union with perpetual US citizenship.
    Despite this, like blind sheep , the Independence party infiltrated PPD is pushing for an ELA Soberano/Sovereign Commonwealth. The leaders of the POpular Democrat Party are closet seperatists who openly proposed Free Association in the 1998. Polls revealed a massive defection to Statehood, so the PPD came up with “non of the above”. Dumping their own Free association under the bus,and instead turning statehood into the personification of Governor Rosello,unpopular at the time.
    Now the El Nuevo Dia Poll suggests ELA Soberano gets 45%,Independence gets 6% and Statehood just gets 35% ish. It also reveals 45% are totally confused on what “ELA sovereign ” is.
    Hoever, there is ZERO confusion in the US Media! In the US, here is how its reported……….
    Statehood 35%
    Independence 6%
    Independent sovereign free association 45%
    6% independence
    +45% Independent sovereign free association
    =51% independence of one type or another!
    The PPD killed all english instruction in PR to prepare for this day.
    The PNP’s english in schools initiative is too late ,and pointless. This is because the clases will end as soon as the next Popular Democrat Governor takes office.
    Had more Puerto Ricans known english, ELA soberano/free association would fail before statehood.
    The Hispanic world will soon see the value of English when PR gets erased from the US map.
    I look forward to all the blanquito Puerto ricans coming over with their money, Just as Cubans fled Fidel Castro.
    The choice is theirs.

    • You sound angry and don’t give credit to the Puerto Rican people on the island. Your comment basically reflects how dysfunctional the entire Puerto Rican paradox is. This is more gray than what you say, and that is the problem. In the end, all of the island’s political parties have failed their people.

      • on May 28, 2012 at 11:12 am Luis Arroyo

        Indeed a paradox. Its just disapointing to realize that maybe were just wasting our time. There’s nothing we can do about it,unless you are a millionaire politician able to use the status issue to gain campaign donations. One such moron was Santorum. He did not come to PR to win the island’s delegates,rather he went there to win the racist southern USstate delegates.
        The statehood party has failed by being fractured between those loyal to Gov. Luis Fortuño ,and those bitter over Fortuño beating Rosello in the primaries. These “Rosellistas” in the PNP vow to derail any statehood measure to deny Fortuño a statehood legacy.
        San juan Mayor Jeorge/Jorge Santini has a radio program called “statehood ” its supposedly to educate the public about the benefits of statehood. Instead, the program is all about his achievements in San Juan!! The PNP is using the statehood program not to teach about statehood,instead they are promoting PNP/republican candidates.
        The independence party has failed by not teaching the positive Potential of Puerto Rico as a free ,possibly the wealthiest first world economy in Latin America. Instead its all negative US bashing. (A ppeople who at the present time favor permanent union don’t want none of it)
        Ruben Berrios being party president for life, gives the impression that an independent PR will be a dictatorship. The PIP is the face of Indeppendence.
        The PPD….the mother of all status lies and abominations! They have supported every illegal status under the sun. Full of bluff by claiming that they would support statehood in the 1980’s to prove Congress would never accept them in. Of course the PPD chickened out and proposed the unconstitutional ELA mejorado.
        THE PPD is the reason PR is stuck as an UNINCORPORATED possesion of the US. I believe the PPD (I came to agreement w/someone else who suggested it.) That perhaps the PPD was created by Congress itself to monkey wrench any attempt to de colonize PR. “Why else?” He asked, “would Congress tolerate. A political party that lies to Congress’s face,fully aware that Congress knows its being lied to. Yet, Congress won’t punish the island for eliminating english,refuses to send the President of a high ranking bilingual Congressman to tell the islanders once and for all……..”the PPD has deceived you!”
        Its obvious Congress is behing the PPD, or if it isn’t, the PPD has become its “usefull group of idiots”. Hasta luego. Later.

      • I agree that all three parties are at fault and the lack of vision from all of them is why PRico is in this mess. Best thing we can do is to just contact our elected officials in the Congress and try to have them focus.

    • Wow! This is exactly what Don Pedro Albizu Campos said just before the Puerto Rican people were sent out to vote “yes or no” for the “constitution” in Nov 1950. He said that the constitution was not created by Puerto Ricans here in Puerto Rico, not even by Munos Marin himself. It was created by northamericans in the us congress for “their” benefit. Don Pedro went on to say that it would be the instrument of perpetual slavery for the Puerto Rican people and they would remain a docile people. If America was such a great democracy under god it would have offer the Puerto Rican people the opportunity to vote for Independence in 1950, but she didn’t because 99% of the Puerto Rican people in Puerto Rico at that time wanted INDEPENDENCE! Even Mr Munos Marin was traveling around Puerto Rico telling Puerto Ricans that “Independence is not an issue in this election” & to vote yes for the constitution. To think Marin was tricking them, when in reality they tricked him.
      Yes sir Mr. Arroyo, it was a big conspiracy involving Congress, both major northamerican political parties, la pava, munos marin & co and God knows which other demons. Now 62 years later, our country is in a horrific state economicly and otherwise. The good side to all of this is that God almighty blessed us with some of the world’s greatest heroes, patriots and martrys like Don Pedro, Loita Lebron, Juan Mari Bras, Rafael Cancel Miranda, Oscar Collazo, Oscar Lopez Rivera and many more. In the end God will decide. Ask the Jewish people and look at the Free & Independent Israel. Shalom.

      • What you describe here is very accurate. Also, Muñoz in the end was as political as any PRIcan politician. Albizu spoke the truth and that is why in the end he was seen as an enemy of the state.

  76. on May 28, 2012 at 12:55 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Best thing you can do is tell your elected officials here that jobs are more important than culture and to start getting serious about teaching English island wide so every US citizen has a chance at competing for jobs here and in the US.

    • No, the language of Puerto Rico is spanish not english. Puerto Ricans are citizens of Puerto Rico. When your country ends it’s illegal occupaton & colonialism here in Puerto Rico, an end to a century old law requiring all shipping on northamerican vessels will result in more opportunities for Puerto Ricans; the result of fair, not open trade and putting Puerto Ricans first.

      • Knowing English shouldn’t be seen as colonial now. Maybe 100 years ago, but having a highly bilingual nation makes us more attractive.

      • on May 29, 2012 at 6:43 am Bruce R. Harris

        Fine Inno, I get it. Spanish is the language spoken here. But what could it hurt to teach English as a strong second language? Do you not see how it would benefit the island? Do you speak both languages fluently? If yes then why do you insist on preventing Puerto Ricans from learning English? I see already where many jobs here require fluency in both Spanish and English. It’s not about colonialism or culture, it’s about getting a good job.

      • I agree with you 100%, Bruce, on this one. It would transform the island, but again, Fortuño’s bid to do it now feels desperate. It is one thing I agree with the Governor on.

  77. on May 29, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    Below is a link to an excellent article that would interest any individual or company who is considering setting up a business in Puerto Rico.


    • First things first! The end of northamerican colonialism here in Puerto Rico is paramount to “Justice & Progress for the Puerto Rican People”. All of the instruments of colonialism must be dismantled and the Puerto Rican People will then decide was best for their Independent country afterwords. To think I would want to make my country attractive to further domination by foreigners and their language as well as their influence is preposterous. In the words of “The Teacher”, “take back our country and fix it ourselves”!

      • on May 31, 2012 at 6:55 am Bruce R. Harris

        Puerto Rico does not exist in a vacuum. Like it or not you cannot go back to the days of wooden sailing ships that move at the pace of a snail. You live in a fantasy world Inno. If you had read my article you would know that in order to do business and get the economy going you will need to speak fluent English. Regardless on whether or not Puerto Rico achieves it’s independence you will still need to provided jobs to the people or they will rebel against your so called “Justice and Progress”.

        And exactly who will decide what is “Justice and Progress for the Puerto Rican people?” A strong armed dictator type like Castro or Chavez? Are you pro-democracy or do you believe the people should not decide what they want and “The Teacher” knows best? And what exactly is the plan to fix Puerto Rico? Do you have one, or do you just plan to wing and see what happens? If that is in fact the plan then I hope and pray the people of Puerto Rico will see through such empty bravado and stay connected to the global economy rather than try to run back to the dark ages and attempt to reverse, what years of colonization by Spain and the US, what Puerto Rico has morphed into. As the saying goes, “you can never go home.”

        Sure, move forward, but don’t disconnect yourselves from the world.

      • on May 31, 2012 at 8:08 am Luis Arroyo

        “All instruments of colonialism must be dismantled, and the people of an INDEPENDENT Puerto Rico can decide what’s best for the island”

        Typical independentista trick. Notiice Inno wants independence forced first, THEN ASK what the people want. This is exactly what Ruben Berrios of the PIP stated. He claimed that if “no” to the US territory(present Commonwealth wins), but Congress is not willing at the time to admit PR to union. PR MUST be given independence “in the meantime” untill Congress finally decides…..NICE TRY!

  78. Great discussion, but Luis and Inno, you are both using 20th century thinking and partisan thinking to not come up with a real dialogue and solutions for Puerto Rico. Let’s put aside our ideological differences and ask ourselves: what is the essence of Puerto Rico? What can we do to make it succeed in the 21st century? Here is a fact: all political parties have failed Puerto Rico so far. PPD. PNP. PIP. All of them. The time to change the system is now. While our brothers and sisters are protesting in Mexico against the PRI and other political parties, we Puerto Ricans are going to get new things at the Costco. We are not unifying as a people to demand self-determination. Instead, we play off the system and divide our people. All in the interest if “winning.” When will we work together to win for Puerto Rico?

  79. on May 31, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    “When will we work together to win for Puerto Rico?” Julito

    When everyone stops fighting the future.

    You have people who want to live in the past, and people who want to live in the present. And their are those who see the future and want to move in that direction. The future is a global economy where there are no borders, and no defined cultures. Just people who want to work for a living and provide for their families. Just give these people the tools to compete in a world where competition is only getting tougher. Governments are realizing they no longer have the money to take care of the elderly, the poor, or provide for early retirement. Just take a look at the PIIGS in Europe and you will see where things are going. Yep, life sucks then you die. If you were told life is fair, then you were lied to. Suck it up people.

    • No tricks arroyo, only promises/treaties as good as the ones made with the Native American Nations. The only thing that was forced around here was northamerican colonialism; at gun point. I would add that “annexationist” always like to make comparisons with countries that currently have bad governments/ dictators, when they mention an Independent Puerto Rico, but never with good examples of well run contries like Costa Rico or Chile or perhaps Beliz. Tricks you say? Now, that is the record at hand. I would remind you that there once existed a Republic called “Texas”. Yes sir, and she was sovereign for about ten yrs. I believe that “Independent Republic” applied and was granted permanent membership in the the north american union. Yes, yes, I know that all took place in the 19th century and I should concentrate on the 21st century mr. varela, but some times the past is the mold in which we carve out the future ……harris. Damn those wooden boats! It is not for “the people of Puerto Rico”, as in “none Puerto Ricans” like harris to decide the faith of the Puerto Rican Nationality, but for the Puerto Rican Peolpe to decide. The Nazis also thought they would decide the faith of the Jewish People and end their existance on the face of this world, but that was a fantasy as well, harris. You are not Boricua, so you will not decide anything You would do well to butt out. Who do you think you are talking down to people. Your kind is not liked. Go home and take your “benevolence” with you.

      • on June 1, 2012 at 9:48 am Bruce R. Harris

        Let’s see. I’m pro-democracy and believe the people should decide what is best for them and to provide the people with the facts so they can make an intelligent choice.

        You on the other hand believe “you” know what’s best for the people and would shove your beliefs down peoples throats if you had the power to do so which you don’t thankfully.

        So who really is the one who talks down to people? You are a danger to the future of Puerto Rico which is why your party only gets about 4% of the votes.

      • Don’t know if the PIP is a danger to the future of Puerto Rico, although I will say that the PIP seems to be stuck in the 60s. A lot of my family was staunchly PIP, but the movement died down for a couple of reasons:

        1. US suppression of the movement in the 60s and 70s.
        2. A more reactive movement that really hurt the PIP’s image in the US. Notice the trend here? The US, especially the FBI, literally rounded up a lot of patriotas.
        3. The PIP does not do enough to focus on the future of Puerto Rico in the context of the 21st century. Although I think they are moving slowly towards that goal, and I still think Dalmau in the end will be at around 8-10% in November.

      • on June 1, 2012 at 12:36 pm Bruce R. Harris

        “The Nazis also thought they would decide the faith of the Jewish People and end their existance on the face of this world, but that was a fantasy as well, harris. You are not Boricua, so you will not decide anything You would do well to butt out. Who do you think you are talking down to people. Your kind is not liked. Go home and take your “benevolence” with you.” Inno

        And your thinking regarding “my kind not wanted here and should go home” is different from how Hitler viewed Jews and that they should also butt out of Germany’s affairs or better yet leave Germany?

        They say people spend at least 80% of their time justifying why they believe and do the things they do. Sounds like you’ve justified your position regarding non Boricuas and came to a conclusion that it is nothing like what Hilter wanted for non German Jews. So how do you keep your left brain from finding out what your right brain is thinking?

      • on June 1, 2012 at 12:45 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Julito, I didn’t use the word danger in the context of violence, but they are a danger to the future progress of Puerto Rico going into the 21st century.

      • I don’t agree with that 100%. Danger right now in the sense that they need to stop thinking that this is 1961, but there is something noble about the PIP that if it could combine political realities with a new vision for the island, it might have something. Problem is that being an independentista has its risks. Hell, when you know of people who were arrested, threatened, killed by the US government because they opposed the colonial structure, you would think twice also. Which is sad, since American was founded on dissent against a colonial structure in 1776.

      • on June 1, 2012 at 2:06 pm Bruce R. Harris

        “The group (Macheteros) has claimed responsibility for numerous bombings, attacks against the United States armed forces, and armed robberies since 1978, and was led primarily by former FBI Most Wanted Fugitive Filiberto Ojeda Ríos until his death in 2005.” Wikipedia

        You use the word “dissent” as though these groups were just walking around with signs and peacefully protesting the US. Peaceful dissent is one thing. But when you turn to violence then expect the same in return.

  80. on June 1, 2012 at 9:14 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    A todo esto digo AMEN, DIOS BENDIGA U S A
    Si reenviamos tantos chistes y otros correos simples creo que este
    tambien lo merece por verdadero de principio a fin.
    LA MERA VERDAD – Y la hipocrecia de muchos

    (Comentario Escrito por un Argentino)
    Se ha dicho que vivimos en el país más antiyanqui del mundo, junto con España y Francia. Por lo tanto, debe de haber muchos lectores de estas líneas que, por alguna razón, odian a los Estados Unidos. A todos ellos querría hacer llegar (con el mayor respeto) un pensamiento que considero atendible. El mundo entero, mucho antes de la globalización, se ha convertido en una prolongación del american way of life.
    El lector antiyanqui que me está leyendo a la luz de una lamparita creada por Mr. Thomas Alva Edison en 1876, viste un jean patentado por Mr. Levi Strauss en 1873. Yo ya no escribo en las máquinas de Mr. Burns (1826) o Mr. Cristopher Sholes (1867) ni en las legendarias Underwood de Chicago, sino en una computadora diseñada por el joven Bill Gates.
    Hoy es domingo, de modo que no sonó el despertador creado por Mr. Levi Hutchins en 1787. Pero sí funciona a toda máquina el láser inventado por Charles Townes y Arthur Schawlow (1960) y hoy tan útil en la cirugía, la odontología, la música, el cine, la guerra, etcétera. Sigo escribiendo, mientras no nos interrumpa el teléfono (Mr. Graham Bell, 1876) y no me llamen de la radio, que fue creada por Mr. Lee de Forest en 1906.
    Más tarde, perezosamente, haremos inflar las llantas (Mr. John Dunlop, 1888), aunque los neumáticos (Mr. Thompson, 1845) están hechos de caucho vulcanizado (Mr. Goodyear, 1839), pero no sin antes chequear los mensajes del teléfono celular, que funciona gracias a los transistores creados por Mr. Bardeen, Mr. Brattain y Mr. Shockley en 1948. No hay apuro: ya no estamos en los tiempos en que Mr. Isaac Singer inventó la máquina de coser (1851), de modo que bien podemos tomarnos un vino blanco frío, que sacaremos del refrigerador (Mr. Jacob Perkins, 1834).

    Gracias a Dios, disfrutamos de un producto tan gratificante como nuestro querido diario, compuesto con la máquina de hacer papel que inventó Mr. Dickinson en 1809, mediante las rotativas creadas por Mr. Hoe en 1846.
    Más tarde podemos bajar a la calle por el ascensor que creó Mr. Otis en 1853. ¡Si va a salir, no olvide afeitarse con el artilugio diseñado por Mr. Gillette! ¿El pasto está bien cortado gracias a la máquina que pergeñó Mr. Hills en 1868? En un mediodía de sol primaveral, uno ya sueña con enero: el día en que el avión (Mr. Wright, 1903) nos lleve a Punta del Este o a Pinamar.
    Las autopistas, los edificios de propiedad horizontal, las casas con pileta, la radio, la televisión, el rock, que lejos de ser “nacional” forma parte del folklore norteamericano, como la batería y la guitarra eléctrica, las grandes tiendas, el cine. Todos los sueños, todas las realidades, todos los placeres, todos los dolores del mundo moderno, son una emanación de lo yanqui. Hasta el izquierdismo moderno fue creado por los americanos, a partir de C. Wright Mills y su concepto The New Left.
    Para los franceses, EE.UU. es la potencia que les arrebató la primacía de Occidente, en estrecha alianza con un viejo enemigo de los galos: Gran Bretaña. Para los españoles, es la nación que vino a despojarlos de sus últimos bastiones americanos: Cuba y Puerto Rico . Pero, al mismo tiempo, los europeos suelen agradecer que los yanquis les sacaron de encima dos amenazas tenebrosas: Stalin y Hitler.
    ¿Y en la Argentina ? La historia indica que Kissinger se mostraba complacido con Videla, pero el Movimiento de los Derechos Humanos fue creación de Jimmy Carter y Patricia Derian, enemigos jurados de la dictadura.
    Cuando nuestros hijos dejan el país para buscar un futuro mejor, los impulsamos hacia Nueva York, Chicago, Los Angeles. De hecho, son varias veces 100,000 los argentinos que viven en Yanquilandia. ¿Para qué fingir que nos gusta Castro cuando no depositaríamos un centavo en el Banco de Cuba?
    Nota con algunas cositas de más: Los odiados gringos están a la delantera en todos los avances y modernizaciones del Mundo. La gran mayoría de los Premio Nobel, en ciencias, y de los inventos e innovaciones que se realizan en el mundo salen de cerebros e instituciones yanquis. También promueven los mejores espectáculos y crean los estilos de la moda. Han inventado el Iphone, el Ipod, y un montón de artilugios de todo tipo, y comercializado en grande el internet. Ahí tienen a google y a facebook.
    Como si fuera poco, inventan los medicamentos y tecnologías más avanzados y hacen las películas que más le gusta a sus amigos y enemigos. Fueron los primeros en llegar a la luna, y llevan la delantera en los estudios espaciales. La TV norteamericana, CNN, es la más vista en el planeta. Los mejores armamentos los fabrican ellos, pero estos inventos son deplorables. Al comunismo lo vencieron sin disparar un tiro y al nazismo a puro cañón.
    Tampoco nadie les gana en cuestiones de derechos humanos, libertad y justicia penal, pero nadie los copia. Ah, nadie emigra a Argentina , y comparativamente, pocos emigran a España y Francia en comparación con los millones que se van a vivir ilegales a yanquilandia. Hasta no son tan racistas como decían, pues a pesar de que allí la raza negra es minoritaria, tienen un presidente negro.
    Casi todo lo que usted usa, come o viste tiene algo que proviene de una inventiva yanki, aunque ahora lo fabriquen en China .
    Y para rabia y sicosis de los antiyankis y a pesar de que padecen una crisis, que la padece casi todo el mundo, las estadísticas recientes (2009) muestran que gringolandia sigue siendo el país más poderoso del mundo, dejando muy atrás a sus competidores, Alemania, China y Japón.
    Está claro, mientras hay gente por ahí que los odia y envidia, los yankis te dan la mano, así son ellos.
    Pase este escrito y agregue su comentario… Gracias.
    Los ecuatorianos, que huyen de Correa, no viajan a Cuba, los de Venezuela, los de Nicaragua, los de Bolivia y los cubanos que huyen de Cuba no lanzan sus balsas improvisadas hacia Argentina o a ningún otro país, sino a USA.
    Los mejicanos (y otros latinos, que desgraciadamente muchos mueren en el intento), no cruzan las fronteras hacia el Sur, sino hacia USA . Los emigrantes de Europa no fueron hacia Francia, Inglaterra, o España, sino hacia USA :
    “One Nation Under God.”

    • This Harris guy has dilusions. The Jewish people outlasted the Roman empire and the Irish the British. The western hemisphere is no longer under the total control of the north american empire, which incidently is undergoing a change from within. Barrack Obama will decimate Mr. Romney in the Nov elections and more socialistic and anti-imperialist policies will take effect in the second term. The end of Roosevelt Rds in Puerto Rico / Vieques ended any desire the old empire had for total & permanent control of the worlds oldest colony. Change is coming to Puerto Rico real soon. My Tea Party friends, who are the “real” Republicans oppose annexing Puerto Rico or better stated, ” will decline any application for statehood”. By far, Americans are good people who know that in the end Americans will demand that it’s government does the right thing. The mistakes of Vietnam, Cuba and Eastern Europe during the second WW are just a few examples. America will do the right thing in Puerto Rico, you’ll see. In fact there is potential for it to become an “Israel” of the western hemisphere. Independent & economically strong. Viva la Republica!

  81. on June 2, 2012 at 9:38 am | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    In the end only Puerto Ricans can decide what is the right thing for them. And from all of the past elections and referendum results Puerto Ricans have overwhelmingly voted for some sort of permanent ties with the US which includes retaining US citizenship.

    I personally do not care which way Puerto Rico goes. But to blame congress or the American people for the quagmire Puerto Rico is in is based on total ignorance of the facts.

    Unfortunately, thanks to President Mckinley, congress inherited a gift that just keeps on giving. I’m sure this is one gift that congress would love to re-gift to someone else.

    • Bruce, you are kidding right? In the end, Congress is the final say on Puerto Rico’s situation. 5 plebiscites have happened, nothing has been binding. Another will happen and nothing will happen. Your problem is that you cannot admit ever that the US-Puerto Rican situation is colonial in nature. Brush up on your American history of the 18th century? Who was the colony then? Sorry, I respect you tons, but once in a while you make comments that make no sense. Have a great one!

      • on June 2, 2012 at 12:43 pm Bruce R. Harris

        Yes Julito, Congress will be the one to sign the bill to whatever status the majority of Puerto Ricans agree to. But if you haven’t noticed, the US Congress are a bunch of do nothing cowardly politicians who will not take responsibility for anything these days if it could cost them their jobs. You know that as well as I do. They will not make any decision that affects Puerto Rico without having the backing of the majority of Puerto Ricans who are after all American citizens. Puerto Ricans need to decide what is best for them and then fight like hell as one unified people and don’t stop fighting until all the major news networks and late night comedy shows are talking about Puerto Rico the way they talked about “Occupy Wall Street”!

        And you know damn well I have acknowledged that the Commonwealth status is colonial in nature Julito.

    • And the fact that you use Wikipedia to call the Macheteros a violent group is exactly the point I am making. The US govt policies led to that movement. People were fighting back but now they are terrorists. Dissent is seen as a threat in modern day America. And that is sad.

      • on June 2, 2012 at 12:50 pm Bruce R. Harris

        They claimed responsibility for robbing banks and bombing federal property. I know for a fact one of the bombs they exploded was hidden inside a Coast Guard aircraft at Borinquen. Fortunately it did very little damage. Coast Guard aircraft are used to help protect fisherman and keep drugs away from the island. They also help stop illegal immigration here. So they were only hurting Puerto Ricans.

      • on June 2, 2012 at 1:00 pm Bruce R. Harris

        I’m sure I can find other sources to back up Wikipedias claims Julito.

  82. Nothing will happen until congres sends the VP to Puerto Rico,or rents the Convention center in PR to hold Congress for a day. Not only would this give Puerto Ricans a unique view of how Congress works,but Congress can finally,on Puerto Rican soil,deal a final death blow to the PPD’s BS over its illegal unconstitutional semi independent but with permanent union and US citizenship status(thee free Beer and BBQ opption).
    Have a hispanic US congressman or woman take turns in Spanish and English tellling the public that “el Partido Poppular Democratico los engaño” La union permanente con ciudadania Estadounidense es solo posible bajo la estadidad y territorio incorporado.
    “Lo que llaman el ELA soberano NO ES el ELA con union y ciudadania estadounidense,es la independencia con tratado de Libre Asociacion.” Le pedimos al PPD que admita esto por fin,y el congreso no aceptara una peticion de Libre Asociacion por engaño!”
    “La definicion de 8ndependencia bajo el PIP,es correcta.”
    “La definicion de estadidad bajo el PNP,es correcta,pero habra muchas condiciones,como ha sido con otros territorios,ahora estados”
    basically,Congress needs to tell Puerto Rico point blank whether or not statehood is an option.
    It needs to make independence more attractive. After the exodus of 75% of the pro union population to the states, the emptier new republic wont suffer overpopulation burdens.Furthermore the well off Ricans will stay as the new “elites”.
    otherwise,the only solution to Puerto Rico if its American citizens demand permanent union and citizenship,but Congress wont grant statehood,is the “incorporated territory “or a constitutional amendment to allow the “ELA mejorado”
    will congress be willing to go this far to get PR out of its hair? Is it willing to add an amendment to grant them the Prez vote in an enhanced soveregn commonwealth?To let them have international standing,while still keeping US passports(citizenship) forever?As I’ve said before, Im pro statehood,but I think PR winds up completely independent, or an incorporated territory allowed to themselves.

  83. I wont hold my breath. I believe the PPD is an instrument of Congress. That pretends not to be. Its mission, to confuse and prevent any majority agreement on where PRicans want to go.
    Why else would Congress continue to say….”come to an agreement, then see us”? What if that agreement is statehood? That’s where the PPD comes in. Their job is to split those who support permanent union to prevent a statehood mandate. Their job is to also split the independentista vote, by offering a seperatist face as well. This fools many sepperatists into voing for PPD, denying the PIP/independence any gain.
    The solution to PR status will only come AFTER the ABOLISHMENT of the Self described”popular” Domocrat Party.

    • on June 2, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

      I’m glad to see you get it Luis. Before Congress will act the people of Puerto Rico will have to give the House a clear and overwhelming majority vote for either statehood or independence. Anything less than a clear majority vote by the people will only keep Puerto Rico in a state of limbo because Congress doesn’t have the balls to make a decision on it’s own. After all, pissing off Puerto Rican-Americans and many of the Hispanic voting organizations is not the way to keep your job. Congress will just sit on this one until they retire and pass the problem to the newbies coming in.

      • You’re right Bruce, The Proyecto Young Bill of 1998, as well as “the Puerto Rico Democracy Act ” of 2010,passed the US. House Of Representatives But the US. Senate refused to hold hearings on them. In 1998, a bipartisan majority in the senate would pass it,but Republicans had the bare majority. Trent Lott, the senate leader,personally hated Pedro Rosello,Democrat Governor of Puerto Rico(Rosello was also head of the US southern Governors association) To Spite Rosello, Lott tabled the measure . He did hold some mock workshops,to wash his hands! The 2010 bill also died in the senate ..This time in an overwhelmingly Democrat senate that still is now(the great champpions of minority rights they claim to be.)

  84. Congress gets it! They always have. As long as the Puerto Rican People are intimidated by elements and institutions of the US government, the colony will continue. As I said before, ELA came about because of the cold war. At that time the United States had a formidable opponent in the USSR and both of these oppressive empires were engaged in deceit around the world. They both devised political names for their colonies so as to refute the allegation of possesing colonies. The USSR called East Germany “The Democratic Republic of Germany” , while the USA began refering to Puerto Rico as “The Free Associated State”. Of course each of these empires had many more possessions / colonies than just Puerto Rico & East Germany. There were many small countries being held captive by the soviets, but are now free. However, that is not the case with Guam, Samoa, Mariana Islands and those Virgin Islands. Puerto Rico was never invaded, occuppied and then enslaved by the United States for the purpose of making her an equal. It was taken to profit off, at any expense. Only one of two things wil put an end to the colony and that is if it stops being profitable or if the Puerto Rican people in conjunction with the international community demands it as in Vieques. Everyone knows that was a great Victory for Puerto Rico and a disastrous loss for the United States. I would add that the only violence that was perpetrated in that struggle was by the military forces of the US and agents of the insular government.
    In ending we should clarify that the charter of the United Nations explicity states that any People, any where in the world have an inalienable right to use whatever force is neccessary to achieve freedom and independence from any oppressor and or occuppier. This does not exclude “The Puerto Rican People”. Puerto Rico and the United States clearly fall into those categories and I would also remind you that some brave men in the late 1700s of a certain thirteen British Colonies resorted to force, violence and even “terrorism” to achieve freedom and independence. However, the consequence of that means is enormous then and now. We must remind ourselves of Dr. Martin Luther King’s approach and successes in dealing with injustices. In his words, “Injustice anywhere threatens Justice everywhere”.
    114 years of injustice perpetrated against the Puerto Rican People, her culture, Identity and national sovereignty by the United States of America will live in infamy !

  85. on June 2, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    You gotta be kidding me Inno. Your comparing what the then Soviet Union did to East Germany and what the US is doing with Puerto Rico? Can you freely leave PR anytime you want? When you leave your house are you followed by secret police? Did you ever go to West Berlin prior to 1990 and look across the wall into East Germany? Well I did. I was there from 1968 to 1971. In order to get to West Berlin you had to take a duty train across East Germany to get there. And only at night. I can remember arriving at the border prior to entering E. Germany. All the passengers were instructed to stay on the train. But we could look out the windows, and we saw East German police with guard dogs searching underneath the train with flashlights. The police were making sure no E. German citizens were attempting to escape the Soviet Union. I was only 15 at the time and it scared the hell out of me. We went through this same process entering E. Germany and leaving, both ways.

    If it weren’t for the generosity of the American people who give more aid than any other country in the world which includes food, medicine, cloths, medical assistance during natural disasters, and other comforts, many people around the world would have very little chance at any kind of life.

    And the US military has fought for and freed millions of people throughout the history of the US, far more than any other country in the history of the world.

    And for all of this generosity the US is now $16 Trillion in debt and sinking deeper every minute. Because of this debt the US can’t afford to take care of it’s own people and infrastructure. Yet it continues to send billions of dollars to Puerto Rico to support the economy here.

    The difference between Puerto Rico and the 13 British colonies is the Americans were mostly unified in what they wanted. Very few Puerto Ricans want total independence from the US as 100+ years has created strong family bonds between the two. It would be the same as removing illegal immigrants from the US and separating them from their families and sending them back to Mexico. This is why Congress hasn’t signed an immigration bill into law and why Congress will never allow Puerto Rico to gain complete independence unless Puerto Ricans overwhelmingly agree to it. Fat chance of that happening. If the thought of separating families as being cruel and inhumane hasn’t crossed your mind then maybe you need to attend a class in sensitivity training. You will never be able to pull families a part without severe consequences. It’s not Congress you need to be concerned about. Your biggest concern will be the many Puerto Ricans who have families living in the US. And every single day that bond only gets stronger. If you really want your independence, then you are probably looking at a very bloody civil war between Puerto Ricans. And I will bet my money against you winning. The teachings of Dr. King won’t be of much help to you.

    • No I’m not kidding! In fact I’m starting to think your “simple”, which is another word for stupid. You mean you never knew that the secret police of the U.S.(FBI) was following Puerto Rican Patriots in Puerto Rico and in the US since the 1930s when the Partido Nacionalista Puertorriqueno was then the voice of the Puerto Rican People. Despite having american citizenship “imposed on them(because we never voted for that “SHIT”), the american citizenship’s constitutional protections were violated 24 hrs a day/7 days a week by agents of the US and the insular gov’t. Yes sir, the 1st Amend, the 2nd Amend, the 4th Amend and more were being violated by those sons of bitches all the time and none of those white liberals did anything about it. So don’t try to give me a history lesson on the iron curtain you moron because the “speck in your eye and your country’s eye is whats on trial here; not the Soviet Union’s. You think that american politicians are godly, but that is not the case. Even your beloved JFK intended on removing all the Puerto Rican People from Vieques by force so that your damn navy could have a place to practice genocide war games for future wars to come, like Vietnam, Dom. Rep, Cambodia, Panama and other places all the way up to Iraq & afganistan. Who do you think your kidding? Rev Wright is RIGHT! “The rooster has come home to crow”. You should have listen to the advice of your 1st President George and kept your ass at home. Don’t be foolish about your talk of violence because the Puerto Rican People have already been down that road in 1950 with the Proclamation of the 2nd Republic of Puerto Rico in Jayuya. The world can never say that the Puerto Rican People never took the enemy to task, because the proof is everywhere, just check your favorite site “Wikipedia”, under Jayuya Uprising. Even though your Gov’t tried to tell the world that it was a civil war among the Puerto Rican Family until the famous “gun fight” at Blair House in Washington D.C. 2 days later. Real Boricuas would never hurt other real Boricuas and your not Boricua and your not my family. Your name starts with a “G” remember and mine with a “B” ! Thats why your wrong about violence. You & yours start everything and you start it with violence and now your going broke. We sure as hell got you out of Vieques, right? It took the Irish a thousand years and they won. We shall be free, yes in deed, we shall be free! And without any violence I may add.

      • I agree, Inno, about what you say here in regards to the US monitoring and repression of fellow boricuas.

      • on June 4, 2012 at 9:02 am Bruce R. Harris

        “At that time the United States had a formidable opponent in the USSR and both of these oppressive empires were engaged in deceit around the world. They both devised political names for their colonies so as to refute the allegation of possesing colonies. The USSR called East Germany “The Democratic Republic of Germany” , while the USA began refering to Puerto Rico as “The Free Associated State”.” Inno

        You are the one who brought the USSR into this discussion you rude asshole. You also incorrectly claim the US started referring to Puerto Rico as a Free Association with the US when in fact the PPD had a hand in this. And still today the PR driver’s license includes Estado Libre Asociado de Puerto Rico at the top.

        Maybe you need to remove the log from your eye if you can’t see that your own fellow Puerto Ricans are selling out and seeking closer ties to the US for economical reasons. Even the web host Julito, who makes his living in Boston knows this very well. He is one of those fence sitters who acts like he is with you yet continues to lean towards the US for his own financial security. He also attended bilingual schools throughout is life because his parents obviously had a very realistic vision for their children.

        As for me, I don’t care which way Puerto Rico goes status wise. My only concern is jobs. And jobs are not happening here for anyone.

        Just because you are unable to articulate your ideas and beliefs doesn’t mean the intended recipients are the stupid ones. You really need to learn how to break up your long, angry, winded rants with paragraphs and include more facts and references if you want to teach non-Puerto Ricans your version of Puerto Rico’s history with the US.

      • on June 4, 2012 at 11:30 am Luis Arroyo

        Indeed the Congress authorized Puerto Rico to have a constitution just like a the states,for local self government.
        However it didn’t change the island status as an unincorporated territory of the US. Congress rejected the “free associated state ” name. Agreeing to Commonwealth.
        the PPD, knowingly called it. Estado Libre Asociado(free associated state ) to deceive the English illiterate into thinking the colony was viable and superior to both statehood and independence.

  86. Luis, like we said, all political parties have failed the island. But your characterization of Puerto Rican electorate as being illiterate and ignorant is bit elitist, in my opinion. Time to stop pointing fingers and time to start impacting real change.

  87. Yo nacido y criado en Puerto Rico todo esto de la politica es una mierda porq en realidad lo q sucede dentro de las oficinas se queda en esas oscuras paredes, ejemplo de eso ; I join in the Air Force i’m proud of my self but, se muchas cosas q han sido calladas por mi y mis companeros . Tarde o temprano USA toma a PR cm a los demas estados y cuando lo haga soy el primero en revelarme en contra, lo q mas deseo y cualquier Puertorriqueno es ver a mi pais con la bandera en alto. Pero se q hay mucha gente q no va a querer peliar por su pais y con todo respeto esa gente son como los tecatos q cada dia se levantan no hacen nada sino q esperar por su muerte, yo lucho por mi segunda Nacion imaginense que haria por la mia!!! no solo se sienten en la computadora estar discutiendo con americanos o ignorantes puertorriquenos y dispersen la voz dispercen su sabiduria pero al pueblo no hay un comment q tenga mas de 5 like jjajajaja

  88. WOW, it has taken me quit awhile to read through all the posts but WOW. There are so many people here that don’t really know history, in 1897 that piece of paper that everyone seems to point so much to saying we got our freedom and the US invaded us and took it away. Read the paper please. this is just a short part of it, “The Autonomic Charter granted Puerto Rico a local parliament composed of two chambers: the House of Representatives and the Council of Administration. The entire House was elected by universal suffrage. The council had fifteen members, eight of them elected and seven appointed by the Governor, in the name of the king. The king could, however, disallow any law approved by the Insular Parliament or postpone its consideration. Bills could only be initiated by the Governor through the local minister, which meant that neither had the power to sponsor a bill on his own. Is spite of these limitations, familiar to other Caribbean colonial systems, Puerto Rico was ahead of the British, French, and Dutch colonies, none of which had a legislature with a majority of elected members until after the Second World War.

    The powers of the Insular Parliament were extensive, as it could legislate on all matters not reserved to the Cortes or the peninsular government. This basically meant that the Insular Parliament could legislate, among other matters, on education, the treasury, economic development, import and export duties, banking and the monetary system, the public credit, public works, the public health, and municipal administration. The central government took care of foreign affairs, except that Puerto Rico could negotiate commercial treaties (subject to Spanish approval), defense, and general matters of national concern, such as the organization and administration of the judiciary, the Civil Code, and the Commerce Code. The concession of tariff autonomy was one feature that revealed the influence of the British treatment of certain major colonies outside the Caribbean area. Tariff autonomy had been enjoyed by Canada since 1859. ” This doesn’t give PR it’s freedom, they still have to make laws for everything and Spain can say NO. They can say we want to trade with China and Spain can say you know what NO. Sound’s like a colony to me. As for the upcomming vote. I would like the Ballot to have only 2 choices on it. not the 3 or 4 or 5 or what ever only 2.
    1. Do you want to become the 51st State of the United States.
    2. Do you want to become an Independant Nation.

    Thats it. As an American who has seen his city in Florida go down the tubes because of the influx of PR to cental Florida, I say give them a choice become a state or become independant. Florida has an official language it’s English but guess what, i have been denied over 100 jobs in the last year because i don’t speak Spanish and i happen to live in an area where the majority is now Spanish. Guess what, I have lived here for 40+ year, why am i being punished.
    This is a very nice blog and it has gotten me thinking about this, i feel PR should be allowed to make their choice but they should only be given 2 choices. If you give someone money, food and housing for free, why would anyone every what things to change. With only 2 choices provided than life will go on and everyone should be happy with the results if not you were on the wrong side of the VOTE.

    Sorry my 2 cents.

  89. on June 13, 2012 at 2:07 pm | Reply Bruce R. Harris

    I agree Clancy. Either Statehood or Independence. They are either with the U.S. and have to pay their fair share of federal taxes, and be able to vote for the President or they are completely on their own without any U.S. support at all. I’m tired of hearing all of the bitching from everyone here. Many PR’s like the current commonwealth status because it gives them both U.S. citizenship and they can stick a finger up at the U.S. and claim they have their own culture which doesn’t include English. But hey, keep sending us those billions of American taxpayer $dollars$ down here! I say shit or get off the freaking pot!

  90. on June 15, 2012 at 11:58 am | Reply Rev Sigmund Podlozny Jr

    History teaches a plain lesson about language and governments: there is almost nothing the government of a free country can do to change language usage and practice significantly, to force its citizens to use certain languages in preference to others, and to discourage people from speaking a language they wish to continue to speak. (The rebirth of Hebrew in Palestine and Israel’s successful mandate that Hebrew be spoken and written by Israelis is a unique event in the annals of language history.) Quebec has since the 1970s passed an array of laws giving French a virtual monopoly in the province. One consequence — unintended, one wishes to believe — of these laws is that last year kosher products imported for Passover were kept off the shelves, because the packages were not labeled in French. Wise governments keep their hands off language to the extent that it is politically possible to do so.

    In Hawaii, our 50th State, students can take all their classes in Hawaiian.

  91. Rev Sigmund Podlozny Jr. I believe you are miss understanding what I was meaning or I just didn’t provide a clear understanding of what I meant. I don’t want Spanish language stopped in Florida, I just want English since it is the Official language of Florida to be the 1st one of choice in public. If i walk into Burger King i want to be greeted by Hello, not Hola.(or however it is spelled). I want the local business to say’s have a nice day, not the that in Spanish, it isn’t that i want their language stopped, i just want their language used as secondary for Public. If 2 people are talking in Spanish OK, but when the new when meeting a person for first time or greeting a person for first time English should be the language used not Spanish here in Florida. If Puerto Rico get’s into the USA as a state they can do like Hawaii and have 2 languages as their official languages if they so choice. But here in Florida English.

    • John Clancy, you are implying (look it up) that English should be imposed on everyone, primarily because you don’t know Spanish. You adhere (look it up) to the uniquely-American stupidity that “One language is better than two or more, so long as that one is English.” Bad John, very bad, since by your writing, it’s patently (look it up) obvious that you haven’t even learned one.

      I suggest you leave the empty debate of “monolingual over bilingual” until you are at least beyond “mono.”

      HHAHAHAHAHAHhahaha! Bilingual pun, at your expense! Have one of your Spanish-speaking non-friends explain it to you. Twice.

  92. Hehehe Funny how you don’t understand and tell me to get someone to help me understand.
    Gut gerüstet für Ihre Informationen, um zweisprachig sein bedeutet nicht, dass einer der Sprachen muss Spanisch. Ich spreche als meine zweite Sprache Deutsch.

    In English for you: (Well for your Information to be Bilingual doesn’t mean one of the languages has to be Spanish. I speak German as my second language.)

    Try and read the statement to understand what someone is saying. I don’t care if people speak any language they want, but in a place where there is an official language it should be the first choice. How would you feel if you go into a local store and they speak to you in Russian not Spanish and you live in Puerto Rico, that would be wrong because PR has an official language that isn’t Russian.

    So before you go slinging around statements about people not understanding let to understand what is written.

    BTW have a nice Father’s Day to everyone that is a Father, Tommorow the 17th.

  93. First of all, good for you that you speak German; I don’t. And no, I never implied that “bilingual” per force included Spanish; that’s your mistake there.

    What I don’t get is that you insist on English being spoken to you in public. If you’re in an area with a high number of Spanish-speaking residents, what language is used becomes by dint of that usage the “official” language, regardless of what a State Constitution says or your personal preference. What do you expect to hear in Chinatown? Would you insist on English if you were visiting San Juan? Or Mexico City. Or Bonn?

    That the area you live in hasn’t been named “Spanish-speaking-land” by some “official” stamp doesn’t alter the fact that Spanish is and will be spoken there frequently, in public and whether you accept it or not. What seems to be your bigger beef is that you said your area had been “damaged” by the influx of Spanish speakers. Is the language the problem? Do Spanish words somehow ruin the social and physical environment in ways English doesn’t? Or German? Because if the language isn’t the damaging factor, then it must be the speaker, who by your definition “Ain’t one of us.”

    Does that mean you’re engaging in xenophobia? I don’t think so, but you’re certainly not out there embracing these cultural differences either. Here’s the thing: language is about communication to achieve a result. If you need something, then you’ll use whatever language works to fulfill that need. So if you walk into a store and they speak to you in Spanish, and keep doing so despite your protests, then the message is clear: “We don’t need you, we don’t want you here.” If it’s the only place that can fulfill your need, then you have the choice of leaving unfulfilled or finding a way to communicate. That’s called “leverage”: they have it, you don’t. Insisting a language be used to address you is fine, so long as you realize that the other person has the exact same “right” to not do so.

    If this bothers you, don’t blame Spanish speakers: the tendency to say “Speak my way or go away” is universal. Insisting upon it is fine, provided you have the leverage to make it work and you understand that you might be masking a deeper rejection (your prerogative, if honest) by focusing on language.

    And curiously, I have been greeted in Russian and French, Basque, Italian, Chinese, Koren and Japanese in the past 2 years, by native speakers of each language. Doesn’t bother me (though I know that’s not your point.) In every case, we’ve moved on to English, Spanish or some odd combination of 2-3 languages, hand signals and laughter to get to know each other. Haven’t ever regretted it. But I wonder how many of those conversations would have never even started by acting like you…

    • I 100% agree!!!!! I’m Puerto Rican and my dad travels there for work almost ever year and the problem is white Americans working with Puerto Ricans STILL expect them to speak English in their OWN freaking island!!!!!! No wonder why when they come to the States they refuse to learn English. I guess they figure that if the white man wants to keep his language in OUR territory, why can’t we keep ours in HIS?! A perfectly valid point! Learn Spanish, folks!!!! If it’s so “easy” to learn a language (English is one of the hardest to learn I’ve heard) then prove it yourselves by learning some Spanish! HALF the world speaks it!!! Get used to it!

      • Most of the high paying jobs that come here from the U.S. are very technical in nature, and the manuals are in English. Jobs like aircraft maintenance, computer companies like Micron and Pharmaceutical companies all require a strong technical grasp of the English language. If PRicans want these jobs here then they must conform to the needs of the company. The language issue is one of the most discussed problems Americans, OF ALL COLORS, have when trying to work with many of the PRican employees who struggle with English technical jargon. Puerto Rico needs those companies here if they want better paying jobs unlike most of the food and clothing industries that do not require a strong grasp of English, nor do they pay all that well either. It’s not about what someone believes is fair, it’s about good JOBS!

      • Flyboy-Honestly, it’s all about respect. There’s NO reason why ANY “good” job shouldn’t be expected to learn Spanish. Period. If you’re coming to OUR island, speak OUR language: Spanish! Or else don’t whine about the people in the states that can’t or don’t want to speak English.

        In the mainland….I get it. You should have a pretty strong grasp of English, BUT why the hell can’t that be expected of ANY country?!?! To expect to speak THEIR language in THEIR country. If you’re doing business with a Chinese company, learn some freaking Chinese! But note how many Americans actually DO learn it. Not many. Thus…I call the hpyocrisy card. Let’s face it those same white Americans that US Latinos lazy are even MORE lazy for not wanting to learn another language yet saying how “easy” it is.

  94. I really don’t want to continue fighting on this point but I still believe you are missing mine. You state: “Would you insist on English if you were visiting San Juan? Or Mexico City. Or Bonn?” my answer is NO, i would expect to be greeted in the language of that city, which is a National lanugage, that is my point, in San Juan I would expect to be greeted in Spanish, in Bonn the greeting would be in German, so why is it too much to ask that in Florida people use do the same thing greet people in the official language. I am not asking for Spanish not to be spoken, just that the first choice be the official language, like the cities you quoted. Sorry this has gotten off the track of why PR will not be a state, but I feel they should or shouldn’t it’s up to the residents of PR. As i stated before like the People choice, one or the other just don’t give them a third choice. Statehood or Independence. Easy ok well i think it is easy.

    • Okay, as for language, you have a valid point that I was seeking clarification for. But I hope you see that my point that what is official and what is common use can be and are often very different, regardless of personal preference.

      As for your original point, I have stated the same thing (statehood or independence), but they are not OUR choices in the sense of “Pick one, get that”: one is a request we can make that Congress can vote for or against, and the other is an international right we can demand and let Congress hang itself on the hypocrisy of their own making.

      In the coming plebiscite, we can “choose,” yet Congress is not committed IN ANY WAY to pay attention to anything we select. Never has been, in any of the plebiscites about Puerto Rico status. Since it is enormously obvious that Puerto Rico will never choose independence (for any number of reasons, nearly all bogus and cowardly)–the only option we have a chance of making happen–and the U.S. will not commit itself to automatically grant a statehood petition, we are stuck in a dilemma that has no rational answer. This status issue is nothing more than a political buzzer meant to distract our voters from real issues, like the current serious rise in crime, unemployment topping 20%, a welfare society entering its fourth generation, an educational system that ranks 76th amongst the 54 states and territories (I kid: it ranks 71st) and an economic system that ranks as the most implausible collection of props since Gallagher and Carrot Top’s luggages mated in an opium-driven orgy.

      My country, my people, are screwed every day by this crapfest. I would pay dearly to see this manufactured wasteland upended in favor a new, self-governed island taking its destiny into its own hands. But the tools to do so are not those of violence or U.N. pettifoggery: the tools we need are vision, will and determination. However, all three are sorely, miserably lacking in what passes for our “leadership” and “campaigns” for progress.

  95. Glad you see my point and I do understand yours also about language. As to Congress is the final factor in it, I also agree with that. My point about that is Congress should limit the choices that PR has. Even if PR chooses to pass the first measure they have what is it 5 choices for the second measure. One of the choices is stay the same. This is where Congress is wrong. The people of PR have in the past made advances in becoming a state but alway’s come up short due to the option of remaining the same is there. I believe that Congress should allow PR its chance to either become one or the other, I don’t think Congress should keep giving them extra choices. If only 2 choices are present than they would become a state which would be good for all people in my option, if the people choice independence that we can help them with that for a number of years so that y’all have a secure footing in it before cutting all ties, but Congress allowing the choice to remain the same is I believe self defeating. Who would opt for change is you can get away without it and still like a normal life. That is my problem with Congress.

  96. No one I know listens to anything either of those guys say. They are really just extremely conservative cartoons of people. They are ridiculous. If the people of Puerto Rico want to become a state I would be just fine with that. Not all Americans are extreme bigots.

    • Then take a moment this week to write to your congressman and senators asking that the upcoming November plebiscite on Puerto Rico’s status be made binding.

  97. on July 12, 2012 at 12:34 pm | Reply Jose ilarraza

    First, I want to tell all new York ricans n puerto rican is that if n when puerto rico accepts becoming a state. It’s only going to benefit the puerto ricans living on the island n the island. Creating more jobs, creating more government funds for the young people for training n college.. That’s the idea- creating jobs n having better equip young puerto ricans with college educations. Have skilled individuals take control of our future. But first- we need to put in place the death plenalty to help battle the crime, build jails to place these individuals whom don’t want to do anything but continue causing havoc.. And removing the bail system inoder to prevent fugitives from leaving the island while waiting to go to trail.. This why I thank god besides being a puerto rican , I am a American..

    • Jose, having white Americans say stuff like what you just posted is one thing but when P. Ricans make ignorant statements, I just can’t be quiet. Becoming a state will do little to benefit the Island. Study what has happened to the Polynesian natives in Hawaii or the Eskimos in Alaska. The natives end up with the short end of the stick- they have lost ownership of their own land because it has gotten so expensive that only whites can afford it. Schools in “native” neighborhoods are the worst; they’ve lost their dignity, their flag, their language and their sovereignity. They have been reduced to an amusing tourist attraction. Why do you want to kill more P. Ricans when the out of control crime on the island is mostly due to the lack of employment and the dependancy that the U.S. has created? Killing more P. Ricans will not solve the crime problem. Young people can’t find employment so they turn to selling drugs. We can’t even export our own products to countries outside the U.S. because of the high taxation the U.S. imposes. It goes on and on. Don’t expect our oppressor to become our saviour – it’s just not that simple.

    • Jose, those Puertorriquenos living in the US are the children & grandchildren of many tens of thousands of Puertorriquenos who fled Puerto Rico in the 1940s, 50s & 60s becuase of political & economic oppression at the hands of the US; directly and indirectly. You sound like one of those who have illusions of Puerto Rico becoming a big great state of the US and then your going to get big fat checks, but that will never happen. Never! They know it and they know what the risk is. I was fortunate to return to Boriquen and did because i did not want to live in the “States”. You already have “statehood”, there are 50 of those damn places, choose one and go!

  98. I agree with Inno. We were illegally and militarily invaded by the U.S. Some very brave heroes tried to defend the Island. They were murdered, imprisoned, tortured and now they have been labeled terrorists by the U.S. If any foreign country invaded the U.S., I have no doubt that U.S. Americans would take up arms to defend their country. Why was it different when we did it? In my view, the biggest problem with our pueblo, is that many suffer from a sort of “Stockholm Syndrome”. They have been brainwashed for so long that they actually identify with their oppressor. True Puerto Rican history is not taught in schools; the media and politicians all lie and and many have been scared into thinking that the Island cannot survive without clinging to the U.S. crutch. I don’t know how so many years of psychological conditioning and damage can be undone, and it makes me feel incredibly sad.

    • Sorry to burst your bubble but you were not invaded by the U.S. Spain was invaded by the U.S. There wasn’t a PR that was own its own, so no you were not invaded. as for the last part, do what i am doing, go back to school so you can teach, I am in my final year now, i will be teaching History when i am done, and i am not young by any standards of the word, i have retired from 2 jobs and going to be startign my 3rd career, it can be done, just don’t stand on the sidelines and yell about it, get in the game and make changes.

      • Quick question: so the front page of the NY Times in Summer 1898 reporting that US troops landed in PR not an invasion? What was it? Please explain? Thanks.

      • You’re going to be a history teacher? God help your students. You shouldn’t be trying to rewrite the past. You must also believe that the holocaust never happened. Please read some history books on Puerto Rico before you make such ridiculous comments.

      • on July 18, 2012 at 9:42 pm Luis Arroyo

        After centuries of being a spanish colony, Spain, thru the Royal Decree Of Graces brought so many Germans, (PPD’s Roberto Pratts,or PNP’s Larry Seilhammer ) Irish wild geese(Mc Klintock, Malley, Cayetano Cole y Toste), Italianos (Luis Pierluisi, Jorge Santini) & Jews (like Geraldo Rivera)…such was the whitewashing of Puerto Rico that Spain, in 1898, granted “territorio autonimo de España”/autonomy with full representation in Spain. Puerto Rico had integrated as a province of Spain. (Spain calls its divisions territorio autonimo.) When the US invaded Spain (PR) Celso Barbosa, and ex Spaniard Ricansexpatriate Community in NYC lobbied for the US to recognize Puerto Rico’s status within the USA,……Celso barbosa sought Statehood. Before he died he, as well as Luis Muños Rivera lobbied congress succesfully to grant US citizenship. Barbosa did it for statehood, Munoz Rivera had other ideas in mind.(equally honorable) Rivera told Congress…..”Grant us (citizenship) the blessings of your experimen, and, when we are ready for independence , the US will be known as the father of great nations, and the liberators of the opressed.” Very ironic, since we still are their colony.

  99. To make a simple point, Glen Beck is considered idiot by most Americans. He was only popular because people would watch and laugh. Now he lost his job. Anyway that isn’t my point. Many American states still celebrate their heritage, because it is usually the constitution that states will have the ability to govern themselves. Take Alaska or Texas for instance, in Texas children learn state history before American history. The Texan capital is incredibly large with all it historical sites still visited and the entire state is still bonded in it’s own culture. Yes Texans are often referred to with stereotypes, but that oftens happened when people are different than the majority.

    • I’m glad you brought up Texas Jayne, because my sister lives there and she can not believe the daily racist remarks made by anglos towards Mexicans, even children. My sister is 100% Boricua (Puertorriquena) and she married a Mexican man in Texas. He has grandchildren from a previous marriage, so my sister is their step-grandmother. While at different places in Texas, the kids(14 & 16 yoa) tell her that they are told to “get away from us beaners” by white males in their late twenties. Now tell me Jayne Doe, do you think we Boricuas are going to give our Nation to you to become “dogs” in our own country?
      Jayne, we don’t want to be part of your country, we really don’t. We want to be respected, we want to be Puertorriquenos 24 hours a day, we want you to get the hell out of our country and leave us alone. Go with the devil and leave us with God!

      • Have you got a mouse in your pocket Patriota? What’s with this “we” stuff? Polls show about half of the island Puerto Ricans want to become a state, and half want to stay a commonwealth. So exactly who wants to be left alone? Stop speaking for all Puerto Ricans because you are not the chosen spokes person for anyone but yourself.

      • flyboy56, maybe Patriota is speaking for herself and other proud and self-respecting Boricuas.

  100. Really, I cannot believe people are still yelling about this. This will never, I say again never have a resolution that is ok with everyone. Some people on here beat up the United States so much it is just amazing to me. I understand some people what PR to be independant and other not, but if you are all for that great, most of the people here don’t go around beating up on PR, we came here to read and post about what we feel about the topic, some others here think this is just a place to have a open yell all and just beat the crap out of anyone that disagrees with them. I you love PR so much move there and work to have the country become it’s own. I you love both work to have it become a state, if you hate everything GET OFF THIS PAGE. I am sorry but seeing people say I hate the US really gets under my skin. I disagree with how PR is treated, but on the other hand, PR is treated that way because of its PEOPLE, no those of us living in the United States. 4 past votes all to remain the same, don’t blame the non-PR’s in the US, blame your own people, Stand up and shout indepentance. I love reading all these comments from people it gives me a new outlook in problems and answers, but just bashing, and yelling and more bashing doens’ t really make you are your stand any stonger.
    Sorry but it’s just my 2 cents.

    • So will you write a letter to Congress asking that the November plebiscite should be made binding? That would be a great help. Thanks!

    • If it offends your white privilege to read the truth, stop reading. The truth of the matter is that the poor and dependant condition that Puerto Rico is in IS the fault of the US. The US invaded and destroyed and continues to consume and use Puerto Rico by destroying its resources and preventing us from becoming self-reliant. It interferes in our education, media, politics, exporting business, etc. It continues to brainwash and addict the Puerto Rican citizens without any end in sight. I believe that the US would love to see Puerto Ricans destroy themselves with drugs and crime so they could take over the island outright without any opposition. The US has been destructive all around the World supporting cruel and horrible dictators, arming Iran and Iraq, etc so take your head out of the sand because until you and other whites face the truth, the US will continue its downward spiral. And yeah, some of us are mad as hell!

    • Wow…another “genius”!!! People here aren’t bashing PR, really?!?! Then tell me why some a••hole (probably you) said that hearing French and Dutch in the workplace is “ok” (languages almost never heard outside their respective countries) but hearing Spanish (a language literally HALF the world speaks) is “annoying and unprofessional.” No, no. That’s not racist, It’s….what is it?

      Tell you what we’ll stop “bashing the USA” once our “beloved” mainland quits treating us like 2nd class citizens, tries to force us to learn English on our OWN island, and quits acting like their poop doesn’t attract flies. Tell YOU what…if you love the mainland so much why don’t you find some beer-loving, hummer driving, American flag wearing site and gush about how it’s (wrongfully) the greatest country in the world and leave us alone? Maybe you feel that if tax payer money is going to PR then you have some say in it? Oh really?! Well, my tax paying money (as a Puerto Rican born in NY) is going to Texas, Lousianna, and other backwards red-necked states. Do I get a say? Apparently, THEY don’t think so since the whole point of the Tea Party was how they think the Fed is interfering with the states. Well, give MY money back then! If you want us to move back to PR (which many of us gladly do, I’m in Spain BTW since I refuse to even be NEAR the USA) then maybe we should kick out all the white Americans living in PR (there are many) who refuse to speak Spanish and assimilate!!!! Go back to the states then and STAY there! And YOU’RE the blogger nor do you sound Puerto Rican so who the HELL are YOU to say who can post or stay on this page?!?! Just more typical whiteman says this so we have to do it mentality. No, that’s not racist. And FYI we DO love to work and take a good look at your white trash trailer parks and even more so WHITE RICH man before you DARE bring up Welfare or such BS. Why is that everyone complains about the Welfare etc of the needy but no one brings up the BILLIONS of dollars the super rich are sending to Swiss banks instead of getting TAXED like the rest of us?!?!?! Put your foot in your mouth and shut up!!!! PR is NOT your country and you’re a typical white American hypocrite who thinks the poor are “moochers” but is unaware of giving away his “hard-earned” money to support his richer than him white CEOs!!!! Enough with the bull crap!!! If the PRs vote for statehood is probably because like many Americans that stupidly vote Republican when they’re either elderly, students, minorities, or poor!!! THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE GETTING INTO!

  101. In 1897, Luis Muñoz Rivera and others persuaded the liberal Spanish government to agree to Charters of Autonomy for Cuba and Puerto Rico. In 1898, Puerto Rico’s first, but short-lived, autonomous government was organized as an “overseas province” of Spain. This bilaterally agreed-upon charter maintained a governor appointed by Spain, which held the power to annul any legislative decision, and a partially elected parliamentary structure. In February, Governor-General Manuel Macías inaugurated the new government under the Autonomous Charter. General elections were held in March and the autonomous government began to function on July 17, 1898. **** 40.^ “USA Seizes Puerto Rico”. History of Puerto Rico. solboricua.com. 2000.
    41.^ Magaly Rivera. “History”. topuertorico.org. Retrieved October 1, 2007.
    42.^ “Chronology of Puerto Rico in the Spanish-American War”. The World of 1898: The Spanish-American War. Hispanic Division, Library of Congress. **** if you are wondering these are my sources and they are Cited sources. Puerto Rico was still under the control of Spain they were just allowed to operate get this simular to how the U.S. allows them to operate now, they could make their own governmental desicions but not about foriegn trade, or other things like that, PR belonged to Spain. So again, invaded Spainish Terrority or providence, or colony holding, or whatever you want to call it but NOT an independant country of Puerto Rico. Spain granted PR Autonomy on 9 Nov 1897 this doesn’t mean they are independant from Spain it means they had more control over their own government. There is a difference. Also, I am all for PR becoming either Independant or a state, y’all’s choice, but you should be give those 2 choices only, no to remain the same. Become Independant or become a state, but don’t stay the same. That is what us WHITIES what. Pick one or the other.

  102. Whitey made me do it! Now that excuse is really pathetic. About as pathetic as hearing Obama still blaming Bush for Obama’s bad economy.

    • flyboy56 – you’re ignorant and have nothing of value to offer so why don’t you go comment on your Teaparty sites where the rest of the morons reside.

      • Are you afraid of the Tea Party esther? Are you afraid of organizations that insist the US government abide by the Constitution? Because this what the Tea Party is about. Do you believe in the freedom of speech for everyone which the Constitution provides for? Obviously not since you would like to suppress by freedom of expression. esther, you are nothing but a molester, as in the Spanish definition. As in “to bother”. I will read your posts, and most likely will not like your points of view, but I won’t insist you go to Moveon.org for you do have every right to post anywhere you want. That is what being American is all about. Are you an American esther?

      • flyboy56 – the Tea Party people are the ones that are afraid; afraid of anything they believe threatens their whiteness. You’re nothing but a bunch of racists hiding behing the US American flag – you oppose any free speech that disagrees with your narrow views. Look up the meaning of fascists and Ayn Rand – you tea partiers fit right in. Pathetic – you don’t even know the meaning of the Constitution or what it stands for!

      • on July 19, 2012 at 3:43 pm Luis Arroyo

        Not to mention the thousands of Blacks and Hispanics, who have joined the “tea party”. I’ll never forget that photo of Sarah Palin being interviewed at a tea party rallynonly to be surrounded on Camera by three Assholes holding professionally made signs of a smiling JOKER Obama, comlete with bloody red lip grin. Those individuals were DEMOCRATS! Always at the right spot with their racist signs to de on the evening news! They were infiltrators! A scheme to fool the American people into hating the Tea Party (which is not a political party at all!) But don’t tell that to the average American, brainwashed by liberal media, and taught by their favorite actors (byimmitating what’s “cool” about them into hating Republicans, tea partiers,Conservatives, The fact that CNN,MSNBC,NBC,ABC,UPN,CSpan,Headline news,joined President Obama’s Communist Hugo Chavez like call to BOYCOTT Fox News Channel, (Americas only conservative news network) PROVES THE DEMOCRAT LIBERAL CONTROL OF THE MEDIA, and what the news story about you will be. Don’t cross them if you’re not PC, like them!

      • So Luis Arroyo,. I’m not a psychologist, but you sound like a self-hating Hispanic who identifies “white”. “Thousands of Blacks and Hispanics have joined the Tea Party?” Where are you getting your numbers from? The tea party is an extreme right conservative organization that is rife with racists. It’s also, despite assertions to the contrary, a structured movement with direct ties to white nationalist groups. These are the findings of a 94 page report released by The Institute for Research & Education on Human Rights. There will always be minorities that turn against their own – they’re called traitors – and you are one of them.

      • on July 19, 2012 at 9:46 pm Luis Arroyo

        IREHR? !! An international left wing Socialist organization bent on destroying Americas Institutions from withi, Using race,and “colored people as pawns” in their quest of bashing white people worldwide!! Are you serious?!!

        IREHR, an organization led by Jewish Leonard Zeyskind. How surprising that of all the genocyde in Africa between the hutus,somalians, ethiopians. The sexual slavery of women and children in the Middle East and southeast asia. The raping and murder of white women in southern Africa, the Genocide against the Dutch Afrikaans. By Zimbabwe President Mugabe and the taki

      • Ooooo! Im a “traitor” you just revealed all I need to know about you! Pendejo, or is that Pendeja? ¿Porque te escondes por detras de un Nick? Me llamo Luis Arrroyo! Tengo mas orgullo de bella isla de mis padres que tu tienes cabello. ¿Cual es tu real nombre? Y que “Dee esto, y “Dee” aquello. Tienes la odacidad de hablar de “traidores”,pero no tienes la dignidad de. Revelar su real nombre!!

      • Eres un cabron, Luis Arroyo. I never agree with boy-fly but he’s right on this one; you’re not a Puerto Rican. You’re a damn mole. Your Spanish sucks (and so does your English). You’re so full of vitriol, I bet you live in Colorado and are under arrest right now.

      • on July 20, 2012 at 8:39 am Luis Arroyo

        You really can’t hang, can you. So you DO believe 911 was an inside job! Well, that being the case, 911 conspiracies are full of anti semitic accusations! You’re boxed in, believing that GW Bush is an Idiot,and at the same time the “grand masterming” of 911! Jaja HA! CHECKMATE! Un pamper en tu boca por hablar tanta mierda! Im done with you “DEE”. So shoot your parthan shot!

      • So Dee, “you ignorant slut”, how do you feel about the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms?

        P.S. are you old enough to remember the first comedy shows from SNL?

      • Wow flyboy56, you don’t know me and you call me a slut! Resorting to name calling and insults just means that you have NO valid arguments left. Hatred and nastiness have taken over and are now dictating your words since facts no longer support your argument. Just makes you sound uneducated, crass, and invalidates anything you say. I feel sorry for you………

      • Maybe someone who remembers the 1970’s SNL shows will explain the “Dee, you ignorant slut” joke to Dee. The actual phrase was “Jane, you ignorant slut”.

        So, about my question concerning the 2nd Amendment…….

      • Are you really that gullible to believe someone who named themselves Luis Arroyo is actually his real name Dee? No wonder you also bought into the left wing media labeling the Tea Party as a racist organization.

        Hey, I gotta bridge I want to sell you that has toll booths on both sides. You will be able to make back your money and gain a huge profit that you can donate to all of your left wing nut job candidates who think money grows on trees and the US can support the entire world. Freaking looney tunes!

  103. Flyboy56 – I don’t believe this discussion is about your delusional views on the meaning of the Constitution or your tea party affiliations and yes, most people are afraid (or disgusted) of paranoid racist views. This back and forth is useless and derails this particular discussion, which I imagine must be your purpose in making inane comments.

    • For heavens sake esther, what is it, esther or Esther?! Are you generally a confused individual? Does your confusion permeate into your politics as well? You really need to “lighten up Francis”. Stop taking everything so seriously. Don’t you know it’s all bullshit?! Puerto Rico will never become a state, and not because of white America, but because PR’s own Republican leadership is not interested in becoming a state. And the Democrats are fat and happy to keep the Commonwealth in place. It allows them to keep “the culture” and still bring home the US taxpayer bacon. Now what could be better than that?!

  104. As I was saying, of all the worldwide violations of human rights,in Europe, asia, and Africa, this crap called IREHR only targets “white groups” so Zulus in africa chopping babies with machetes is ok? The oppression of the tibetans is okay? Interesting how this leonard Zeyskind outfit emphasises “anti semitism” let me tell you what you already know….”International research on human rights” is. An organization within an organization. On the outside a facade of human rights. Inside, however, they push a zionist agenda, using race as a “force field” todeflect attention from their main goals. Which are the elimination of America and Europe,as major powers in the world stage. They are not loyal to Israel either. International zionism has no nation,just the nearest bank! Most jews worldwide are working families, but it so happens that MOST world Billionaires are Jewish. They may not be religeous, but the y use the jewish history of victinization to their advantage! If Mike Bloomberg,for example hates you, and you’re famous? Your picture on the front page of tomorrow’s newspaper…..”antisetite shocker” your public life is over! They erased you. Google the following…..
    “Who rules America?”

    “Jewish control of Hollywood”

    “Jews in Hollywood”

    “How the jewws took over Hollywood”
    Prepare to be shocked as to how they control ALL major news companies, publishing houses,newspapers, All major TV networks,including FOX NEWS CHANNEL(owner by Rupert Murdoch)and you thought they really were racist? Apparently the whole republican vs democrats is a ruse to deceive! Most neoconservatives like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity work for jewish owned radio networks. If you can’t believe this…..then I hope you don’t belive in 911 conspiracies.

  105. While the ignorant masses focus on party politics, the behind the scene rich fat cats are forcing smaller banks to close and buying them up at bargain prices. Does anyone really think the financial institutions crash of 2008 was by accident? That experienced bankers really had no idea what they were doing when they issued CDO’s around the world which were nothing more than toxic loans painted over to look like A+ rated loans? And the sale of homes to low income minorities who could not have afforded them if not for the lending standards being lowered so everyone could realize the American dream? Banks were betting on the home owners losing the homes to the banks so the banks could resell them at a profit. What the bankers failed to see was the housing crash that took place in 2008. If that hadn’t happened the media would never have picked up on the story of homes being foreclosed, many by minorities.

    We, all of us hard working stiffs, are so intent on beating up on each other we are missing who the real enemy is. The lovers of money and power! They are of no specific race, sex or religion. Their god is money. Gluttons of money in which they cannot get enough of it. They will do anything to get their greedy little hands on it. Yours, mine, everyones! Wake up everyone! You are being deceived by the media which is controlled by the super rich and powerful. The gluttons of money.

    So go ahead and question your beliefs. And question your leaders who most likely are being controlled by the money barons.

    • Well well, F-boy; looks like you got it! Bingo ! Yes indeed. That is exactly what happened in 1898 with Puerto Rico. A group of greedy individuals from the U.S. & Britain were aware of Espania’s plans to set Puerto Rico on a path of Independence. Ist Espania recognized that indeed a Puerto Rican Nationality evolved after almost 400 years of colonialism. 2nd, Espania wanted to set Puerto Rico on a successful path of independence by minting the Puerto Rican Currency and organizing the Puerto Rican Postal System as well as scheduling elections for a Puerto Rican Parliament. 3rd, Espania’s armed forces in Puerto Rico was training a “State Militia” (like a national guard) to defend Puerto Rico from pirates & other would be enemies; they would be known as “Macheteros”. As a result, a great number of Spanish soldiers retuned to Espania. The greedy individuals as described had to move quick and they did. Taking advantage of a newly militarily weakend Puerto Rico. Why did Espania all of a sudden become nice after 400 years of brutality in the Americas? Espania was hoping to maintain a civil relationship with at least one country in “spanish speaking America”, and Puerto Rico was it. However, to everyone’s surprise a beautiful democratic republic(USA), who had just recovered from a horrific civil war that was fought & won in the name of morality and against human bondage, became a violent empire over night, enslaving the Puerto Rican People. Yes sir, F-boy, you are right. Greedy men which included many North Americans and some British, like Mr. Winston Churchil, but all Anglos. Their intent was to make money, lots of it, for themselves and their families for generations to come. It was never to make Puerto Ricans their “equals”. 114 years later it is clear that those greedy men have made a mess of Puerto Rico; it’s economy, it’s social institutions, and most important it’s self esteem. Puerto Ricans were not a docile people in 1897, but they are now. All this created by the USA. It is important to remember that no elections were held in Puerto Rico in 1898 to be invaded, none were held after the violent invasion to ask the Puerto Rican People if they wanted to be a colony of the USA. In fact the elections that were held in 1950 in Puerto Rico, never mentioned the word Independence. Why? Ask yourself why, Fly? Because the greedy men wanted to make sure that all those Puerto Ricans who were self- sufficient had died off and a “dependent & docile” Puerto Ricans were the new majority. That was achieved in the late 1960s. This enviroment would now be “safe” for elections that would ask Puerto Ricans if they wanted to be “free & independent”. Yes sir, the tempoary colony under “commonwealth” and the permanent colony under “statehood” would be safe for elections. What a mess! But no fears, even the “negro slaves” freed by Lincoln had to be chained & pulled off the plantation by force. So go ahead F-boy, tell your Congress that no election is needed to do the “RIGHT THING” and “End the Occupation”.

      • Really you cannot read very well, I am the one that posted the information about 1898 PR. You make fun of all the info I provided and still don’t believe hard facts. You blame the United States and Britain, you state Greedy many times and through it all you blame what was it you said “Anglos”, as you point out Really, all Anglos, Really. Also I must point out that you claim in the 1950 vote the word indepenance wasn’t used, Well not to point out the known facts to everyone else here on this forum, but just for your information, the first vote was in 1967: the results were:

        Commonwealth 60%
        Statehood 39%
        Independence 1%

        This is taken from: http://welcome.topuertorico.org/history6.shtml as of 26 July 2012@ 11:46 PM.

        If you are going to try and make fun of people on this forum, you should really bring FACTS with you not just well i heard this, and this. Hearsay won’t work. Bring facts like I have and than maybe than people might not think you are a young ignorant PR wanta be, living in either Florida or New York, and trying to prove you know things that you really don’t.

        I am sorry Franky Benítez and all others on this page that are providing thought provoking comments and theories that I had to resort to name calling, but some people talk out their (well y’all can guess) and it just makes me mad, when we are all here yes arguing but talking without taking it to hearsay levels.
        If you wish to continue to prove my points or if you every find REAL facts please, post them. Otherwise go whine somewhere else.

      • Mr. Clancy, in the 1950’s, the PPD (or Commonwealth Party, as they are know today) was for independance. Their slogan actually included the word “liberty” and people were fooled into believing that the PPD was the path to freedom. It was only after people realized the PPD was a sham, that the true independistas rose up and fought against their imperialistic foes. They were summarily squashed and the struggle had to go underground. Independistas were harrassed, arrested, tortured, and intimidated and although much of the populace was scared to be associated with them, in 1952, the Independence Party (called the Nationalist Party of Puerto Rico) took 19% of the vote and was the second electoral party on the island. Those are the facts! So before you go thinking you know everything because you read a line here and there, I suggest you read some BOOKS. I can recommend some good ones if you like.

      • Hey John boy, I know what you wrote, but I was applauding F-boy for getting it right unlike you. You are simple, remember ? What I said about the 1950 vote was that Munos Marin was told by his yanqui masters that, “independence” was not being offered, so he should forget about it or they (the yanquis) will find someone else to support for colonial governor. Munos Marin had to then tell Puerto Ricans on the campaign trail that “Indepedence was not an issue”, yet he spent alot of time previously telling them just the opposite. He was always an obedient lackey. So again, at a time (1950) when a great majority of Puerto Ricans favored Independence, they were not allowed to vote for it. You see, your the one that can’t read. Oh yes, I did say anglos! By the way, I live in my father’s country, “PUERTO RICO”. How about you John boy, do you live in your father’s country, “yanquilandia” ? By the way, no anger here, just patriotism and you should know that we will never abandon our beloved nation Puerto Rico. We are her vanguard! I will admit that I can’t tell you when we will be free, but we will be free. We shall be free. God Bless Puerto Rico.

  106. Please give me the names of those book you use, the ones i have read don’t say anything about a vote in 1952 and it being the second one like you state. Acording to http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/how_to_laws.htm Public Law 600 (P.L. 81-600) was approved by congress in 1950, and the than elected Governor of PR Luis Muñoz Marín and others wrote up a Constitution and it was voted on and approved by the PR citizens in 1952, and approved by the US Congress that same year. No where in this Constitution does it state independence will be voted on. check out this site for a copy of the Constitution: http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/schools/law/bclawreview/pdf/50_4/05_lawson-sloane.pdf for more information about this event I would suggest reading The Supreme Court and Puerto Rico: The Doctrine of Separate and Unequal
    By Juan R. Torruella this book breaks down all the events of 1950’s adn into the 1960’s of PR. I am sorry that you disagree with me on facts, but if you have books that state otherwise please share those titles so that others may look them up. If you provide books that states different facts than those I have posted here, I will welcome the chance to say I am sorry and you were right, but until than, my facts speak for themselves.

  107. Yes, the US Congress failed to ask the citizens of Puerto Rico back in 1898 what they wanted for their country after the invasion. Instead Congress claimed it as a territory of the US.

    But since then Congress has been asking Puerto Ricans what they want, and each time Puerto Ricans have voted, it has been to keep Puerto Rico as a Commonwealth and US territory. So if you want to blame anyone, blame the citizens of Puerto Rico who continually vote for a Commonwealth.

    You say Puerto Ricans are united?! Well prove it by voting overwhelmingly for independence come November. Either put up or shut up! I live here in Puerto Rico and I am damned tired of hearing this crap that Congress owes Puerto Rico it’s independence.

    • You’re an idiot, f-boy, and have no sense of history or reality. If you don’t think people’s present condition has anything to do with their past, then you’re a bigger fool than you seem. If you’re so damned tired of that “crap”, then move your dumbass out of PR; I’m sure you will NOT be missed, oh and stop trolling sites that disagree with your twisted sense of reality because you really have nothing to contribute.

      • I know the truth just kills you Esther. And since I am probably one of the only posters here who is actually living in Puerto Rico, my opinion counts for so much more. I pay taxes here, own a home and have an ID to vote. On top of that I served my country for over 20 years in the military. How about you Esther? Can you claim any of the same? And might I add, since it is you who seems to have a difficult time with other opinions, maybe you should move to a country where everyone is forced to have one opinion. May I suggest Venezuela?

    • Now, your wrong flyboy with respect to “congress asking the Puerto Rican People what they want” since after the 1898 invasion. In 1948 your congress was forced by the UN & World community to end it’s colonial domination of Puerto Rico. Truman & your congress with their Puerto Rican lackeys, decieved the Puerto Rican peolpe by telling them in 1950 to vote “yes” for the “Free Associated State & Constitution” in the Nov. elections of that year. Independence was never on any ballot in any election anywhere in Puerto Rico until the election of 1967. By then, 90% of Puerto Ricans born before the Northamerican invasion & who supported the Republic of Puerto Rico were dead. Use some critical thinking here Fly-boy. The Northamerican empire had bet that with the passing of that generation, the desire to be free & Independent would be too. They never expected that the Puerto Rican People would continue to want to be Puerto Rican 114 years later, but they were wrong. We are more Puertorriqueno than ever. We will never stop being Puertorriquenos because we never began being Northamericans. Our union is and always has been with “Latin America”. The Irish have been the bold & dignified example of Nationalism & resistance for the whole world. They resisted the British for a thousand years and today they stand as a free republic with a national constitution authored in part by Puerto Rico’s favorite son & apostle Pedro Albizu Campos. In ending Fly-boy, we don’t care what your “tired of”. We are in our country Puerto Rico, not in yours and we will always continue you speak of your country’s “high crimes & misdemeanors” against the Puerto Rican People. Always remember that we are nothing like the tribes of Alaska or Hawaii. Unlike them we are a nation, we are a nationality, because we have our own language, national athem, our own flag and idiosyncracies. We are not Northamericans and never will be. I am not the first to say it nor will I be the last. You will never get a “state” of Puerto Rico in your union. At best you will end up with what will be discribed as a “the troubled land” or “Northern Ireland”. I’m sure no one really wants to take this colony that far. Things end the way they start. No election made Puerto Rico a colony, an act of congress did. No election will end it; an act of congress will. “From dust to dust”. Amen.

      • Let me reiterate what I previously said Patriota. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR TAKE ON HISTORY, OR ANYONE ELSES FOR THAT MATTER! The only thing that counts is right NOW! And right now Puerto Ricans have voted to continue as a US territory. And I am betting they will vote for Puerto Rico to remain a US territory come November.

      • Great example, Patriota!!!!

      • Sorry but it was an act of war that made Puerto Rico a colony.

      • Let me put it another way. Puerto Rico became a colony after a chain of events took place starting with the attack on the USS Maine at Cuba, which led to the US invasion of the Spanish military in Puerto Rico. If those events had not taken place then Puerto Rico would never have entered the crosshairs of the US leading it to becoming a colony. Shit happens.

      • Shit happens? I guess that explains how you were conceived.

    • Our independence IS owed to us and if you’re “tired of hearing” fucking LEAVE!!!! Stupid imperialst bastard….Seriously…you’d have a better time in red Texas.

  108. “Mr. Clancy, in the 1950′s, the PPD (or Commonwealth Party, as they are know today) was for independance. Their slogan actually included the word “liberty” and people were fooled into believing that the PPD was the path to freedom.” Esther

    Right, and are you saying that the people of Puerto Rico still believe the PPD is for independence? Because they continue to keep fighting for Puerto Rico to stay a US territory during every referendum. And I’m betting on the same happening this November as well. If Puerto Rico stays a US territory it is not because of Congress, but because a democratic country chose it to be.

    This has nothing to do with history anymore. Everyone thinks everyone else’s historical interpretation is a crock of crap, so why bother with it. It is the present now and the people of Puerto Rico will decide what their future relation with the US will be. And that is a fact.

    • Thank God that Mr. Linclon did not call on congress to have an election to end slavery in which the “slaves” would only vote in. I’m sure you can guess the results of that “democratic vote”; a landslide against freedom would have been the out come. In stead he issued an “Executive Order” on that 1st day in Jan of 1863, better known as “The Emancipation Proclamation”. Even after the war was over, lincoln had been assasinated, and reconstruction was being implemented; Union Soldiers were physically forcing slaves off plantations throughout the south. Why? Not because Plantation owners were still holding them against their will, but because they were afriad of freedom. They had been conditioned and borned into an enviroment where they were given everything, i.e: food, shelter, clothing from one generation to another. They really believed that they would die without their “masters” and their captivity or colony. So Union soldiers burned everything on the plantations and the slaves had to accept freedom without an “election.
      Now F-boy, does this explain to you what “colonialism does to a people?

      • Blah blah blah blah blah. More history lessons. Bore me to tears. Fact: Puerto Ricans will continue to vote for the Commonwealth come November. That is all that matters.

        The UN hasn’t got the balls to stop the slaughter in Syria. So please stop referring to that useless organization. Maybe you could recommend the UN move to Puerto Rico? That would be a constructive idea. New York city does not need anymore vagrants.

  109. If you want to understand today, you have to search yesterday. ~Pearl Buck

    • And who’s historical writings are are we to believe? So many historians seem to have a different interpretation of the facts which is why so many people are turned off to history. You can have 5 witnesses to an actual event and you will get 5 different interpretations.

      • I am not speaking of interpretations – I’m speaking of history. If you don’t believe history books, then you know nothing nor do you care anything about yourself or your country.

      • Ookaaaay!

  110. “The great eventful Present hides the Past; but through the din
    Of its loud life hints and echoes from the life behind steal in.”
    ~John Greenleaf Whittier

  111. I do understand what everyone is saying here, I understand that being supress for many years leads people to become lazy, and not want to push for reform. The latest UN push to give PR it’s independence was issued in 2006 a copy of it is here: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/gacol3138.doc.htm in this document all of the people pushing for PR’s independence are not from PR, as you can see this is what Fly-boy was talking about. I am not saying I agree with all he said but he has a valid point the people of PR don’t care. The UN conducted interviews on the island to see how the people felt and the response they got was to remain a commonwealth. I cannot understand how people here say they want the UN to intervien and when the UN does the people don’t want the help to change things. This vote is nothign but a sham and nothing will get done by this vote. Until the people of PR deside to get a voice and stand up they will continue to be a commonwealth of the United States. Everyone here on this pape and pages like this needs to get the word out to all their neighbors and friends and enemys’ alike, that change is needed; until the people start speaking up for themselves NOTHING will change.

    • Sorry I forgot to add this to help everyone that want’s PR’s independence: http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/questions_answers.shtml this paper tells you want steps to take to become independent to meet the UN standards and than they will help you.

      • Puerto Rico is a democracy. What we don’t need is a Congress dictating what is best for us or a foreign entity like the UN who can’t find it’s ass with both hands and flashlight forcing the US into make Puerto Rico an independent country. Only the people actually living here will decide what we want. All else just butt out!

      • Gotta love how you keep including yourself in PUERTO RICAN business. What we don’t want or need are WHITE permanent tourists trying to dictate what PUERTO RICANS want! You’re not a Puerto Rican, Flyboy. Drop the act and go back to where you belong. A ticket to Orlando is only $147 from San Juan so I hear….Stay out of our business.

      • All great countries, organizations and companies have one thing in common…they are well diversified. So I am helping PRico become more diversified.

      • Hmmm…ok. Kinda like how we actual Latinos are helping to diversify the mainland??? Yet…why complain about them then? After all…they’re only “diversifying” it like you, right? You wanna push PR to be bilingual? Ask the southern states to be bilingual! Why don’t you think it’s “shameful” that Florida’s state language is English and that most southern states aren’t pushing Spanish? Oh right…because according to you…only “good” jobs speak English. Because “good” jobs can somehow not afford to offer Spanish courses never mind that in DC or NYC you almost have to build up your Spanish speaking skills for a good job. Too bad the south which has even more Spanish history isn’t following suit…

        Well…here’s my point: if your white and Republican friends don’t want OUR kind of “diversity,” YOURS is certainly not welcomed either. You can’t complain about PRs complaining about the States if you’re complaining about PR and yet STILL choose to live there. You can’t have it both ways, Flyboy.

      • But Republicans are also very much in favor of diversity. They just want to make sure the diversity comes from legal residents. The way I ensured my legal existence here in PRico. I have no need to hide from the authorities the way illegal immigrants like so many Domincans have to do.

        How do you feel about the many illegal immigrants here in PRico?

      • Ok. At least I see we’re starting to talk civilly now. “Republicans are i favr of diversity” LOL…I don’t see the Southern states clamoring to be bilingual like you would have PR be. Not to mention some of them are just plain racist.

        But yes, I agree. There does have to be some form of immigration laws in the States and in PR or else it’d be chaos.

        But now I have this to say…WHY do you think the USA allows illegals? Could it be perhaps because those rich CEOs you Republicans love so much are actually profitting off the cheap labor the illgelas offer? Think about it. Mr. Money Bags thinks, “Hmmm now I can spend 10 million dollars on wages and benefits for my American employees or I can spend only 4 million on wages and since these guys are illegals, I won’t have to worry about spending more money on benefits or writing them on my taxes…Jackpot!” Yeah…I think you know which they keep choosing. So if you’re gonna blame illegals, blame the ones who keep HIRING them too. Why do you think these rich guys also keep out sourcing jobs???? Same reason. Profits.

        So Flyboy…I still don’t see you and your party’s reasoning and I hope I never will. Because there will never be an explanation as to why these rich a$$holes keep absuing the system yet get rewarded for it when everyone complain and gripes about the penny funds the poor and middle class get just so they won’t have to pay $1,000 on doctors and pay another $1,000 on some self-serving insurance that STILL gets to decide whether or not they’ll cover you even AFTER they got your money.

        Nope. I’m still a die hard socialist and always will be. Make the rich pay their fair share and THEN talk about the middle class but last time I checked, I didn’t see any poor people adding additions to their “bankrupt” mansions. : /

  112. I can said too many things. But I want to said. United State of America they don’t give you anythings for nothing. B.S. But, if Puerto Rico drill a hole a has petroleum Oil, I bet you , next day we’re State 51. They are a bunch a racist, that it is!!!

  113. I just can’t understand why so many people want to be a part of such a racist country as the US? Would someone please explain that to me? Isn’t that kind of like a Jew whining about Hitler’s Nazi Germany being so anti-Jew, yet at the same time pissed off because Hitler won’t let them in? I will never be able to figure out some people.

    • Puerto Ricans by farr (94%) want permanent union with the US,as well as Citizenship forever. This is a great site,,but this forum is for seperatists who favor independence. That’s why you see so much US bashing. The independence option seldom gets over 5% of the vote. Google “La chuleta Congela/statehood” for a pro US,statehood viewpoint. The site is very similar to this one.

      • Blah, blah, blah. Good luck trying to hijack this site with your nonsense. In case you’ve forgotten, Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens so we’ll criticize and bash the U.S. as much as we please, and if you don’t like it, too freakin’ bad; we don’t care!!! Yeah, go to a pro-Statehood site if you don’t like reading opinions that don’t jive with yours. Discontent and criticism is what makes any country better – not blind and foolish acceptance.

      • Blah blah blah to you too! HOW THE FUCK am I hijacking the site? I never told anyone to stop reading here! I’ve been posting here long before you poped up. “ESTHER”! Did I not call this a great site, “ESTHER”? If I plugged some other seperatist site, you would not be talking shit! But mention a statehood site… OMG!!!! Why not offer the benefits to independence,rather than attack statehooders. Yeah, Im a statehooder, but also a realist, It may never happen. In fact ,Independence may be closer than we think. If you REALLY knew me from my posts, youd already know that.. But youre just an amature blogger with childish kneejerk responses,hahahaha!…..HA.
        Now go puta diaper on your mouth,talking all that shit. Buscanle un pamper, otra mas hablando mierda! Now, go bitch about me on your FACEBOOK!!!

      • I’m immature? You can’t tolerate criticism without resorting to high school cursing and name-calling, and I’m childish??? Your English is horrible and your Spanish much worse and I’m an amature blogger???? Why would I even mention someone like you on my FB – you’re nobody….just another ignorant slug that thinks his mess don’t stink. From your hostility and insults I can only conclude that you are have an ego-centric personality and you regress to insults and maybe even violence when you don’t get your way like a two-year old when mami says “no”….so who needs the diaper? You’re pathetic.

      • My my…my…dear Esther..Did I strike a nerve? I see you only saw in my respone what you wanted to see. I put alot of worms(f bombs) on that hook, and right on cue, you bit the bait. Of course I didn’t expect you on facebook,its a sarcastic joke!!! Tisk Tisk tisk…..no sense of humor..and my tone?
        Did you really expect me to keep quiet when you start a respose with ,and I quote; “Blah Blah Blah” at the fact that most Puerto Ricans (over 7 million) want to remain Americans politically? So your will for independence,trumps the will of over 7 million pro US? Who is really egotistical? Thanks for all your attention, not. (Go ahead shoot a last parthan shot, Im done with you.)

      • Why are you still here? Im nobody, a slug “who thinks his doesn’t stink” and yet your ego is so big,you couldn’t let go. YOU JUST HAD TO WRITE For your own self validation and mental health!!

        PS. The FB comment was pure sarcasm.But of course,you ,,having no sense of humor,HAD TO REPLY.

        Thanks for all your attention!! NOT.

      • Yeah Luis, you are right about this being an independence web site, but Noel clearly is pissed believing PR will never become a state because he believes racism in the US will prevent it. So I guess he is a statehooder. Go figure right?!

        Oh, and “discontent and criticism” is what makes a country great? Get real Esther! I haven’t read one thing out of your “fingers” that is good about the US. Is there anything good in your opinion besides the freedom to bad mouth the US without worrying the government will haul you off to jail?
        US-Love it or leave it!

        And Luis, your English is just fine.

        And you Dee, you don’t believe the US is a melting pot? Well, me either. “Birds of a feather will always flock together”. But that doesn’t mean birds of a different feather don’t get along. I bet you live in a neighborhood where people are of similar race to yours. Does that make you a racist?

      • Educate yourself – I can’t be racist! Racism means prejudice + power and as a Latina woman I have no real ($) power. And I’m refering to the structural racism that permeates the USA. So go read a book because your ignorance is showing.

      • Alright Dee, I took your advice and re-educated myself on what is a racist. Here is the link that I used: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/racist

        I think you are confusing a racist with sexual harassment. Please provide me with a link showing your interpretation of a racist. I’m always open to learning something new.

      • So happy you asked. Racism is not as simple as a definition from a dictionary…..

        “Racism, however, is more than just prejudice and discrimination combined. Racism is a socially constructed reality at the heart of society¹s structures. Racism is the deliberate structuring of privilege by means of an objective, differential and unequal treatment of people, for the purpose of social advantage over scarce resources, resulting in an ideology of supremacy which justifies power of position by placing a negative meaning on perceived or actual biological/cultural differences.”

        “Racism goes beyond prejudice (an attitude) to structure this power advantage politically, economically, culturally and religiously within a social system, whether it be simple (as in personal bias) or complex (as in the role apartheid played in South Africa), which gives social advantage to some at the expense of others perceived to be inferior and undeserving.”

        You’re willing to learn something new so I invite you to read the following:


      • And here is the link for Sexual Harassment.


      • “One of the dangers that must be avoided in grasping a proper understanding of multiculturalism is bashism. Bashism is the tendency to verbally and/or physically attack another person or group based solely on the negative meaning given to group membership—due to biological, cultural, political or socioeconomic differences (such as gender, age, race/ethnicity, political party, class, education, values, religious affiliation or
        sexual orientation)—without regard for the individual. The motivating factor for bashism is fear, arising out of ignorance of the other.

        One of the backwashes of a narrow view of multiculturalism, especially as espoused by some women and persons of color, is what I call “white maleism.” White Maleism is the tendency of minority groups to blame white males for most of the social evil in the world today, especially as it relates to sexism and racism, and view them as selfish, ruthless, unrepentant and unredeemable, and, as a consequence, refuse to recognize and accept the contribution that many white males have made, continue to make, and desire to make, to remove oppression.” Caleb Rosado

      • I thought we were discussing racism and your trite definition versus the true complicated meaning of racism and how it permeates US American society? But if you want to skip around and find only the paragraph that seems to defend your point of view, then I must confess that I am guilty of White Maleism. That is because in my world, White males = socioeconomic power which in turn causes structural racism. White males invaded my country and to this day continue destroying it. White males keep minorities from progressing and women from achieving and even earning what they earn. If you’re not helping the victim then you’re either a victimizer or an inactive bystander (the one that does nothing in the face of evil) and personally the US Congress and US American society is full of victimizers and bystanders. In US American history, there have been a few famous White males that have brought about genuine justice but the true heroes…are those infused with compassion. Some of those heroes have been White, but they are certainly in the minority. My true anger and “riotist” attitude is against US American structural racism – something you are apparently not mentally strong enough to accept. And you said you were open to learning something new……..

      • Exactly. Funny thing about most hispanics is that regardless of our mixtures with african and Amerindian, our complexions tend to be “mediterranean white/melanochrai” as opposed to most non hispanic whites, who are blonde nordic/xanxochorai(I’m horrible at scientific spelling)
        Mediterranean white complexion can be pinkish(“hincha”) ,olive,tanned, but gets brownish in the summer sun. Most latinos fall in the olive,tanned area,just like the south Italians and Arabs. Yet have assimilated African American Ideas on race,such as the lie that “you can’t be racist without power” (I guess the black woman who called me a spic f and told me to choke on my GOYA beans (funny)for wanting statehood is not racist.)

      • And here I was thinking I was having a half-way intelligent conversation with Mr. fly. Luis Arroyo, you must have cement in your brain. Did you even bother going to the site I posted and reading what racism is versus prejudice (is it too much to read for you)? Prejudice is a personal PRE-JUDGEMENT OF SOMEONE BASED ON IGNORANCE, something WE ARE ALL CAPABLE OF. Racism ON THE OTHER HAND, is culturally sanctioned strategies that defend the advantages of power, privilege and prestige which “Whites have because of the subordinated position of racial minorities. If you have assimilated the WHITE lie about racism because to you they are a superior race (and I can tell by the tone you write in thats what you believe) then you have no willingness to learn or grow as an individual and therefore, have no compassion….. “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (Matthew 12:34), meaning that our words and attitudes toward each other well up from a deeper source, our genuine heart-felt feelings

      • I never got to finish, accidently sent it in. To summarize, hispanics have their own system of prejudice and racism in Latin AMERICA. Mire las telenovelas/look at the latin soaps….Spaniard descent are always the family. The indian and morena always babysit and care for the house. Yet in the US, looking white does not cut it,and All hispanics,white or mestizo learn the hard way.
        To understand America’s prejudice against hispanics, one must learn of the eternal hatred between England and Spain for domination of the atlantic. Spain had the Netherlands as a colony. The dutch made blue cobblestones for the streets of old San Juan. Ireland,anEnglish colony often sided with Spain for Spanish suport of Ireland’s independence cause. After the destruction of the SpanishArmada by a rare long living Hurricane that made it all the way to europe, ,Spain lost control of Holland. Spaniards were Shipwrecked on Irelands coast and were slaughtered by the brittish. Yet the Irish, by the thousands hid Spaniards. These Families with other Irish in the service of England, defected to Spain. Known as the “wild Geese” these Irish immigrants moved to latin America, especially Puerto Rico. Alejandro O Reily y O Dalybuilt el morro. Cayetano Cole y Toste,a famous PuertoRican historian was among many Irish who contributed to PR society. Ramon Power got Puerto Rico’s sugar industry going.
        Anyway,I digress. When America(US) was founded, the Anglo Saxon founders brought these anti Spanish sentiments with them. Had Spain sent 6 to 10 million Spaniards to the US,the way so many Germans,Irish,Italians did, Hispanics may not be discriminated against in 2012. But instead, they went to Latin America, Founded over 20 new republics. To be fair, the US did not even exist then, but once it did, in 1848, It fought Mexico. Its victory over it, and the Spanish American war of 1898, cemented American notions of superiority over spanish speakers.

      • Actually Dee I did go to the web site and read what you suggested. I was so intrigued by the author I read more of what he wrote. Do you not recognize the name of the author? I just got so tickled thinking how he described you and those like you so perfectly. You really are an angry minority woman who blames all the white males for your problems. So you see I am willing to learn so thanks for sharing. But you didn’t seem to learn anything from the very same author whom you quoted. So who is the one picking and choosing here?

      • Luis Arroyo, now you’re making me laugh out loud. You keep stating that same old tired conspiracy theory. I do think Bush is a moron, but I don’t believe he masterminded anything. You’re a silly person….ha,ha,ha,ha (and truly has only one “l”) – sorry, couldn’t help that….

      • Truly has one “L “……..Ladies and gentlemen…..BEHOLD, its “DEE”, a person so special she walks on water! Knows it all, a “quemasabe”! Sweat runs UP Dee’s forhead…Oops!, that’s not a complement. Dee is so special, her keyboard NEVER gets stuck when typing! Your turn.

      • Firstly, you need to get over yourself Dee. You don’t exactly have the demeanor that inspires someone to learn.

        Secondly, I am trying to get my mind around a new concept. I will read the article again and see if I can accept the authors’ complex definition of a racist.

        Is it possible that the dark skinned peoples have elevated whites to a supreme position in the world through there own inferiority complex? Native Indians have written accounts of seeing a white man for the first time and believing they were gods. They clearly viewed their darker skin as being inferior to the white skin. I also know that even lighter skinned dark people see themselves as superior to someone who is darker skinned than them.

        And then again, maybe it’s the image of Jesus Christ that ingrains the perception that dark skinned people are inferior to lighter skinned people.

      • Okay, Mr. Fly……..you win. I certainly do not have the mental fortitude to argue with a genius like yourself. Us darkies are born believing we’re inferior; you just proved that with your amazing assertions. Thank you so much for enlightening me, your Whiteness! Oh, and I’d rather die with and from White Maleism (only curable with the extinction of structural racism) than be an ignorant Latina thinking you Whites are better than us.

        As Frida Kahlo so wisely said, ““ I don’t like the gringos at all. They are very boring and all have faces like unbaked rolls.”

      • Golly-gee-willy-winkers Dee, you give up way to easy. My wife, who is Puerto Rican by the way, reminds me everyday that I am no god. How she does humble me so…

    • LOL…good question….much like how someone would want ot be part of a Spanish-speaking, “boring history having” “American-hating” Puerto Rico?

      Yup…I’ll never be able to figure out some people either. Keep up the amazing troll logic, Flyboy. I think you’re actually starting to believe your own BS.

  114. The most racist country is the United States:

    United states’ policy has been racist since independence.

    There, laws against non-whites continue to be promulgated.

    United States has a racist culture that never has been deleted, it doesn’t matter if the president is black.

    United States is the country with the highest number of cases of racial violence and hate crimes and the country with the highest number of racist associations or tendency such as ultra-right the skinheads, KKK, Neo Nazis, RNA, and about 70 minutemens militias ultra-right and racist civil active (2009).

    • Dee, I am stating this openly and frankly, you are a Plagiarist. I don’t throw around insults or bad negitive comments very often but http://thefourhappyfriends.blogspot.com/2012/05/10-most-racist-countries-in-world.html I am sorry you whole comment is quoted word for word from this site, which in turn got it from this site: http://septimaguerramundial.blogspot.com.es/2010/05/top-20-los-paises-mas-racistas-del.html at least the person you stole it from gave credit to the orginial poster. Now to go over this statement, First HELLO you are quoting stuff from a Communist website and is based on personnel beliefs not facts, if you read his intro to his statement you will notice he said he compiled the list from different things he found on the web (not sites like): http://www.red-network.eu this is a website that is made by various governments in Europe. Sorry but racism is everywhere. Is the United States more racist than another country, I don’t know, but the country’s i have lived in or deployed to for over 1 month of time, i say no. I belive that the United States is the most hated country in the World, yes. No matter where you go everyone hates the US, but at the same time millions and millions of people want to come here, guess we fit in that weird spot, hate it but still want to be there. Anyway, is the US number 1, maybe, maybe not, is PR the number 1, maybe, maybe not, who knows, NO ONE. ( I am only saying this about PR, to poke fun at some posters here, “boricuas”, because the Native people of PR where all but killed out by the Spanish.)

      • Listen buddy, I’m sooooo tired of having NON Puerto Ricans and white people try to tell us who and what we are! We are MESTIZSOS meaning that we came from mostly European (mostly Spanish) father and mostly Taino mothers with some African slaves in the mix, ok?! Studies were done on us and our mDNA show that 70% of us have more than 60% AmeriIndian DNA most of which was found to be exclusive to the Taino and other Caribbean tribes!

        Think of it this way: we’re more Taino than you are American because the true Native Americans were forced off their lands by YOUR people! At least we actually have a great deal of Taino blood while very little white people have Native American blood!!!

        So kindly stop talking as though you know the facts! We ARE Boricuas!!!! And whether you agree or not is COMPLETELY irrelevant to us. Maybe you’re not “American.” Re-think THAT.

  115. It’s funny, Luis Arroyo is like flyboy’s dumber and more evil twin……

    • How can I be dumber,..yet more evil? Its like you thinking…, NO! Im convinced you’re the type who thinks George Bush is a moron,yet credit him as the mastermind of 911!! It takes dark genious to be trully evil. Your comment is an oxymoron. Thanks for sharing!

      • Stop trying to reason with Dee Luis. Her problem is she has “white maleism” disease. And the really bad news is there is no cure for her. She will live out the rest of her sad little life with this terribly “ignorant” disease. The symptoms are “bashism” of white males, believing that all of the problems minorities face is because of the mean ol’ white male. From what I have been reading on this web site, this disease is extremely contagious. The CDC has issued a stern warning to stay clear of anyone who shows symptoms of this very deadly and “ignorant” disease.

    • Wow ! Dee & Esther, i’m impressed with both of you. Your responses to John boy, f-boy and YOYO had me in stitches; thank you. It’s no wonder that all the problems of the world are truly “man-made”. Either one of you two ladies would make Great Presidents Of the Republic of Puerto Rico. Esther, your absolutely right about speaking our minds & criticizing our government; it is the most important duty of any American citizen. We are not subornate to our government, to the contrary, our government is subornate to us “The People”. The founding fathers of the United States made that clear and in their writings in the “Federalist Papers” they also made it clear that when our government is no longer represenative of the people, then the people have the right to dismiss that government which is no longer “a government of the people”. They were building a Republic, not a damn empire; which is what we have had for the last 115 years. By the way Mr.Arroyo, Puerto Rico is an independent nation, but it is also an occuppied nation and has been since that infamous day in 1898. Even you statehood dreamers (like the Nazis-dreamers & their 1,000 year reign) know that the occupation will end eventually. Then Puerto Rico will again begin engaging the world as an equal among nations. We will celebrate our birthday on the 23rd of sept of every year. The United States will have to find a way to redeem herself for her crimes against Puertorriquenos of at least five generations. Next time your empire has an itch to steal something, she should consider the consequences. We are a proud people, with a proud heritage & culture. We know that Betances is the Father of our Patria and Lolita the Mother. Our nation has many patriots & martyrs like Dona Blanca & Don Pedro. Neither Alaska nor Hawaii had such National Heroes. You can’t swallow a nation, you just can’t.

      • Amen to that, my sister!

      • “Puerto Rico is an Independent nation ” wow! I’ stay from whatever you’re smoking,it’s got you in an alternate state of reality. Puerto Rico has never been independent! In fact, in early 1898, Spain granted it the status of “territorio Autonimo /autonomo con representacion completa en la nueva Republica De España. Puerto Rico becamee a province of Spain. The US version is STATEHOOD, whether you like it or not! I respect reasonable independentistas. I RESPECT their desire to end the colony, I respect JulioV/Frankie Benitez’s fact that. Puerto Ricans. Are a nation of people who should be free & independent, but you are BSing others with your “Puerto Rico is independent.” Talk, Its peeople like you and Esther,as well as Dee,who make independentistas remain at 7%. Anyway,thhe effects will wear out soon. Take una Alcapuria, dos morcillas, y un relleno de papa sobre un pastel. For dessert, dulce de coco,con pasta de guayaba. Call me in the morning! Lol.

      • “By the way Mr.Arroyo, Puerto Rico is an independent nation, but it is also an occuppied nation and has been since that infamous day in 1898.” Ex-patriota

        Absolutely amazing! I guess if you deny your own history long enough you will start believing anything. What happened to the previous 500 years under Spain’s rule ex-patriota? I guess what I should be asking is, are you an ex-Puerto Rican-patriota or an ex-Spanish-patriota?

  116. Hey flyboy, you don’t need recognition or affirmation from anybody, but yourself, to get it. You think because you yanquis say we are something or are not something it is correct or legal ? You Yanquis are thieves! Out right criminals! That is why Mexicans refer to you as “GRINGOS”. As I referred to you three before, ” f-boy, j-boy and yoyo”, you think you know the correct history of everything, but you don’t. Just because you cite some book you believe it’s correct? Just imagine what a victorious Nazis Germany & Japan would have written in the history books that all of us would be compelled to research. They would never mention the exterminations, the murders, the chemical & biological research on human beings, the death marches and all the war crimes committed during that horrific period. Absolutely not! Your government is responsible for war crimes as well. Especially in Jayuya 1950. In San Juan with it’s laboratories that experimented on humanbeings, the Puertorriqueno kind. You polluted our beloved Vieques with radioactive waste, which will take a thousand years for nature to clean. I won’t begin to discuss the illnesses that Puertorriquenos are suffering from due to contamination, because that would take too much time. Yes, your government is a racist empire that will be remembered for all of her war crimes and hopefully will have to answer for it one day in this life, if not in the next. You damn people are hated, right here in our country Puerto Rico & you are challenging us with your presence. Your pale complexion and your odor of swine is repulsive! So, when you walk or drive around in our country and you see us looking at you, keep all of this in mind. You stand out, and you SMELL out. We hate you MF!

    • HEHEHEHEHE, this is all i can say. Wow. All i am going to say. Just Wow.

    • The comments on this blog (my blog) are getting out of hand. We can disagree, people, but seriously? Nothing comes out of name-calling and disrespect. Feel free to post but tone down the anger.

      • You’re right,Julio. It was a very low blow,and I apologize. To you a,Clancy,Dee,Esther, Patriota and others who had to see that.

      • Careful Luis Arroyo, your comments are hate speech and could quickly turn this site into a hate site.

      • Right. I’ll drop the budweiser & Coors light texting,personal attacks and return to topic at hand.

        This August 19th(?),there will be referendums. In Puerto Rico,people will decide whether to ammend the PR constitution to allow judges to deny bail to certaiin people accused of murder &multiple murderers (in relation to the drug wars ). The current Constitution guarantees bail to everyone. As a result, many accused. Have paid bail, only to flee to Latin American countries without US extradition treaties.Governor Fortuño R/PNP is lobbying for a “YES” victory. The opposing candidate for Governor this fall from D/PPD, Alejandro Garcia Padilla has been opposing limiting bail to murderers,has done an about face, now will vote yes,as well.

        No word on status whatsoever,2 months to go. They. Are not interested in status at all. The status vote was supposed to be WITH these August referendums,the first phase that was to have been …”do you want to change from the present territorial Commonwealth?
        The second referendum is to alter the Puerto Rican. “State Legislature. From a house and senate, to a unicameral system. Or at least to reduce the number of legislators.

      • All good, Luis! Jejeje, jodia cerveza. 🙂 just refrain from personal attacks and it is fine. Thank you for apologizing.

        Yes, it is getting weird on la isla.

      • Since Luis Arroyo’s rants are okay with Julitio, I guess this is not the intelligent and cool blog I thought it was. I’m unsubsribing so you guys can keep patting eachother on the back even when the insults and racism runs rampant. No thanks…..

      • Sorry to lose you. Luis has apologized for his remarks and he had offered some good points after the fact. Thanks for taking part in this community and good luck with everything!

      • This is an open forum. Luis has apologized for his remarks. Don’t know what else to do, but to claim that this blog is racist is a bit of a stretch. I allow for commentators to comment on things but I don’t recall a pot I wrote here that would be deemed as racist, but it’s a free space and you have every right to your opinion. Thanks again for your comments.

      • We will welcome Puerto Rico, the 51st state. Im not so sure you will welcome your new Puerto Rico! Welcome to the club boys. Leave your flags at the door:)

      • What does the “new Puerto Rico” mean?

      • If Puerto Rico does become the 51st state say good bye to the language barrier businesses. US companies especially will feel more comfortable locating down here where everyone will be on the international business language; English. Bilingual skills not required!

      • Not quite. Any companies in Puerto Rico will be there to bridge Latin America. They may be english on the continent,but will be bilingual in Puerto Rico. Second, Puerto Rico does not have to leave the flag at the door. After all, Texas’s state flag is the same that flew over the short lived Republic. California broke from Mexico as soon as Mexico surrendered, but Mexico had already given the US title to California as part of the Mexican session. But to this day,the flag of the state of California proudly proclaims..”CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC”

      • In name only. Anyone who thinks that Texas or California are REPUBLICS and use that as the argument don’t get it. Sorry, Luis, once a US state, always a US state.

      • Yep,I Meant that their original flags remained,they are definitely not republics. Whether TJ was teasing or not,the present flag will(or should I say, because Im skeptical over statehood happening at all,) would be te statee flag. I think independence will work because most statehooders will flee, as well as the PPD pro union base. Leaving the island, perhaps with only about a million,mostly well to do Families who will invest iin their new republic. The massive population loss of Statehoodrs and Populares mantenidos(they refused to vote statehood or Independence to avoid taxes to the feds/or their own republica.) Will relieve the new republic of any population strains. Just my take.

      • Yes Luis, companies will need translators when negotiating and such, but the day to day work the company’s employees will be doing will be in English. Can you think of any state that requires bilingual language skills on all levels of jobs? Look at the employment ads in Puerto Rico and you will see most jobs here do require someone to be bilingual. Right now if you are not bilingual, you are better off if you only speak Spanish. But English only applicants can forget about getting hired. I predict that will all change if PR becomes a state. Otherwise, the Department of Labor will get plenty of complaints.

      • Why leave the flag at the door? California still has its “California Repuublic” flag as the state flag. Texas has the same state flag as it did as an independent country. So does Hawaii and Vermont.

      • We have deleted the comment and have already accepted his apology.

      • Esther is right, I’m out too. These three jackles ( j-boy, f-boy and yoyo ) are out of control.

      • Thanks for visiting!

      • Well, now that you and ex-patriota are leaving this site it will get back to being an intelligent and cool blog Ester. Don’t go away mad, just go away!

      • “You damn people are hated, right here in our country Puerto Rico & you are challenging us with your presence. Your pale complexion and your odor of swine is repulsive! So, when you walk or drive around in our country and you see us looking at you, keep all of this in mind. You stand out, and you SMELL out. We hate you MF!” Patriota

        Oops, me thinks this site just turned hateful Esther! Isn’t this one of your debate buddies?! Shameful isn’t it?!

      • Hand shake Luis! Apologizing was very big of you although I don’t see why Julito hasn’t asked a few of those “white maleism” haters to apologize as well. We’ve been called white MF, gringos and nazi’s. And the three of them sound a bit like war mongers to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if any of them belonged to a radical leftist group who have dreams of overthrowing the US government. I think the FBI should look into their activities. They obviously hate the US and would probably jump at the chance to join a terrorist group and create havoc in the US and Puerto Rico. I hope big brother is watching you three racist yahoos! Typical bunch of whiners who can give it but can’t take it. If you want to know why this latest debate escalated into what it did just look at your own blogs and ask yourselves if they were always intelligent and constructive. It usually take two, or in this case two parties, to tango.

        Even as bad as it got, neither Luis or I requested they be removed from this site. I would say that makes us more accepting and open to other opinions. We may not like them but we will continue to share in the debate. Understanding others means being willing to hear them out regardless.

      • Flyboy- “Say goodbye to the language barrier businesses. US companies will feel more comfortable to speak the international language: English. Bilingual skills not required.”

        Wow…just. *takes in a very deep breath* So let me get this straight, flyboy. You’re not Puerto Rican, you simply live there, you admitted you don’t care about our history which you find “boring” (yet whose roots probably forms the entire BASIS of the parties), you think that all those Puerto Ricans who haven’t been speaking English (on their own island) will suddenly OVERNIGHT be forced to learn English and that bilingual skills won’t be required, AND you want a say in OUR business?!?!? Yeah…I hope you see why I have a BIG problem with that. You’re sooo out of touch it’s sad and I hope they never let you NEAR a voting booth.

        Of course people will still be expected to conduct their business in Spanish or at the very least expect to be bilingual!!!! Even if PR becomes the 51st, the transition WON’T happen overnight and they can’t expect our population to be forced to learn English overnight on what once was THEIR island!!!

        Dude…I either hope you were sarcastic or seriously…if you love English so much: freaking MOVE already. Puerto Rico speaks SPANISH and always will, if you don’t like it, get out!!!!

        Love how Americans hate people trying to change THEIR country but don’t mind trying to change other people’s.

    • Julito, Luis Arroyo is a nasty racist with a very ugly attitude that disintegrates quickly into cursing and total disrespect of others. I urge you to block him from this site. He sounds like a KKK member and he can have his opinion but his lack of control and vitriolic rants should not be tolerated.

      • “You damn people are hated, right here in our country Puerto Rico & you are challenging us with your presence. Your pale complexion and your odor of swine is repulsive! So, when you walk or drive around in our country and you see us looking at you, keep all of this in mind. You stand out, and you SMELL out. We hate you MF!” Patriota

        And you’re ok with this rant Dee?! Gee, no hate shown here… Hypocrites!

  117. You’re right, Esther. If you tolerate hate speech or allow it, it must not bother you very much! Sad……

  118. As for the flags, I think TJ may be referring to how little the states have control of their own affairs with the federal government keeping a heavy thumb on them. The state flag is really only symbolic of the power the states had before the civil war. Puerto Rico will lose any power it has if it becomes a state. Language will be the first to change. This is why even the PPR leaders don’t really want PR to become a state until they get congress to allow PR to maintain it’s culture and keeping Spanish as the primary language. Rick Santorum made it clear congress will expect Puerto Ricans to speak English as the primary language, and all school subjects be taught in English if it were to become a state. It is for this reason that PR will maintain it’s commonwealth status.

  119. As for the flags, I think TJ may be referring to how little the states have control of their own affairs with the federal government keeping a heavy thumb on them. The state flag is really only symbolic of the power the states had before the civil war. Puerto Rico will lose any power it has if it becomes a state. Language will be the first to change. This is why even the PPR leaders don’t really want PR to become a state until they get congress to allow PR to maintain it’s culture and keeping Spanish as the primary language. Rick Santorum made it clear congress will expect Puerto Ricans to speak English as the primary language, and all school subjects be taught in English if it were to become a state. It is for this reason that PR will maintain it’s commonwealth status.

  120. on August 19, 2012 at 7:43 pm | Reply Graciela Beauchampi

    Get a life Julito. Living in an island were they use US currency, and getting paid minimally is as great as being a mantenido. Which, I assume, you fall into that category. America just laughs. There are more important things to worry about.

  121. on August 28, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Reply Jorge Berrios

    Down with the colonial status right now!
    No to statehood
    No to the “common wealth”
    Yes to the Republic of Puerto Rico
    My fellow countrymen, please believe in your own people, after all we have plenty of successful puertoricans around the globe. We have what it takes to make it work.
    Open your hearts, love your country first!

    • All bravado and pride are the ingredients for disaster. Put together a real economic plan and include the pros and cons. Then let the people decide whether it is doable or not. So far I’ve only seen plans that want to take more than give as in the “Enhanced Commonwealth” plan. “Give us all the federal benefits without any federal taxes.” No wonder Congress does not take the issues of PRico seriously. It would be truly laughable if it weren’t so very sad.

      • I’m a Puerto Rican born in NY. How about conscript farming like many places have conscript soldiers? That way we can protect our environment, boost our economy by focusing on exporting foods rather than importing and it will be more community based since people will switch around every 2 or 3 years and then they can still pursue their career of choice. PR has LOADS of natural resources. We just have to work together to make it happen (which I’m actually planning to do as my father has land there and I want to set an example since we can’t ask people to do what WE’RE not willing to do)

        Also, I think that whole “if you bash the USA, get out” mentality is complete BS. Maybe if you don’t like the Puerto Rican mentality YOU should get out of Puerto Rico. Like it or not, history matters WAAAAY more than most people give it credit for and one of the MAIN problems in this world is that there are soooo many people like you that can’t understand that and want to fix problems overnight without even trying to understand or care about what made them HAPPEN in their FIRST place or learn from the past’s mistakes. Learn your history and then make educated choices BASED on them.

        Also….don’t even get me started on the bogusness and other less friendly words that is the Republican and Tea Party. Those hypocrites that brainwashed MILLIONS of Americans to resent the poor, elderly, students, and minorities like us for taking the bare peanuts offered to us through years of tax paying and hard work, but have NO qualms about giving more handouts, subsidies, and tax cuts to the SUPER RICH who spend it on Swiss banks, yachts, cars, etc. Just watch Real Housewives of NJ. Did rich and italian Teresa and her husband go to jail or get evicted from their mansion and have their stuff sold at auction on their front yard like many poor, black and Hispanic families?!?!?! Or did they continue to live there, buy more expensive clothes, an an ADDITION TO THEIR HOUSE, throw more parties, etc?!?! And yet you people whine and cry about the few pennies Welfare and Medicaid give to the poor?!?!? Are you freaking KIDDING ME?!?! Ha! If you only knew that the super rich don’t even play by the same rules as us, don’t even pay the same TAXES as us and yet you wanna whine about the poor?!?! Pathetic hypocrites…

        Seriously…if you’re not a raving independista who has a plan for PR and think the USA is “oh-so-great-and-magical” then do what they tell us Latinos all the time when we don’t accept their mentality, freaking MOVE THERE!!! If you love it so much, live on the mainland!!! And if you don’t want to, then why be a hypocrite and expect thousands or millions of Puerto Ricans that live in the USA to just up and move if they don’t want to adhere to the typical USA mentality?!?! So…lesson is: don’t be a hypocrite. If you love PR, want to have your own mentality and still live there then realize that many dissenting Puerto Ricans on the mainland want that freedom too without being criticzed. It’s always gotta go both ways.

    • Sorry to bust your bubble Jorge but maybe you don’t know Colonial Status means. Puerto Rico is not a colonial power, it also is not a Commonwealth. I agree with you let Puerto Rico become it’s own country, PLEASE let it. Change all the status of all people living in Puerto Rico to NON-American Citizens and than change them to a Republic. Watch how many people leave PR and flee your country if they become a free Republic.

      • Oh and if you want facts about this Read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703752404576178570674769318.html nice little article about your country and why i say lot’s and lot’s will flee.

      • Watch how many people stay to work on the issues and pretty soon, YOUR people will try to come at our door to join the fun. I agree that let those that love the mainland and adhere to it, to MOVE there! But then let’s kick out all the white Americans and other Puerto Ricans that don’t adhere to the Puerto Rican way. Puerto Rico should be for those who love, respect and want to better it not those who want to take advantage of it.

      • on October 22, 2012 at 11:38 am larroyo@ymail.com

        You sound no different than those who say,………” We Americans have a culture!, Assimilate to it!” ” If you love Mexico /Canada/any country so much, move there. ” “let’s take our country back” and my favorite, ” America, love it or leave it!”

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • Arroyo-Haha…yes, I do and why do you think that is? Maybe because oh I don’t know, I’m using their OWN argument against them!

        Take a look around and tell me those people who object to “illegals” and who demand that everyone in the USA be expected to learn English and assimilate, those American flag waving, Bible-thumping, gun-toting, love my cheeseburger and fries people aren’t MOSTLY white Southern REPUBLICANS a party that many people here including flyboy and maybe even you follow. So…if that’s the case and you guys are Republicans and don’t object to your party’s saying these things about Mexicans and Latinos having to assimilate and learn English on land that once THEIRS live and work there all their lives and STILL get no votes, why all of a sudden do they have a problem when the shoes’ on the other foot?!?! Why does flyboy want a say in PUERTO RICAN problems when he merely lives there when other immigrants can’t vote on AMERICAN policies when they’ve ALSO lived and worked there all their lives?!?!?

        I’m calling out the always present and blatant HYPOCRISY, Arroyo. I don’t like it when people say “Love America or leave it” but those that DO say are often the ones that leave it and expect everywhere else they go to BE America when they should’ve practised what they preached.

  122. !Que mucha mierda hablan aquí!
    It’s very simple. As long as we maintain our current status we will never prosper. That is why we are the only Colony in the Western Hemisphere, it doesn’t work.

  123. Actually, what Gelnn is saying is that the corrupt Progressives of the US are trying to force the Puerto Rican vote into being in an attempt to leverage more people to vote, in turn, for the Progressives. This bill which Glenn is requesting his listeners to reject is not a movement coming from the heart of Puerto Rico for the benefit of Puerto Rico. The rules set up by the Progressives in this case are weighted so that the vote would result in favor of statehood, but not for the benefit of the people. Should Puerto Rico decide of its own volition that they want to vote again for statehood, and should that motion be passed, the Puerto Rican people would be getting what they want legitimately and for the right reasons. If that were the case, then the vote wouldn’t exist because of a corrupt governmental organization attempting to use Puerto Rico as a pawn in their big game. Glenn is all for voting as a tool to make changes the people legitimately want on terms the people designate and not by the rules of others.

  124. Check your facts again Seekingdharma, Glenn what’s a 2 part vote for PR, that is become a state or become independant. For as many years as PR has fallen under US reign it has been given too many choices for it’s vote, in the past they were also given the chioce of remain the same. This is what he and many others what to change, vote yes let the PR people vote either statehood, or independant that is the only choices they should have.

  125. Statehood would be a more popular status if congress would accept PRico to retain it’s culture, especially where language is concerned. Many PRican leaders, including members of the PNP party want Spanish to be the primary language taught in public schools. For this reason congress will not accept PRico into the union. This is probably the biggest obstacle to statehood that is not specifically talked about. What you will hear is that PRicans do not want to lose their culture and become americanized. PRicans overwhelming vote against independence for fear of losing U.S. citizenship. Until PRicans accept English as the primary language PRican leaders and congress will never come to an agreement. So PRico will continue to maintain it’s colonial status which satisfies both PRico and congress, for now.

  126. Flyboy you are so correct, keeping a culture is something very important to every person in this world (at least i believe that). So keeping your heritage and cultural beliefs is something that everyone should be able to keep ahold of. I also feel that having Spanish or English or what ever for the primary language is something that each state should deside, The state of Florida has voted on and approved English as the state language but that doesn’t stop people from speaking any other language or for the state to provide voting cards in non-English languages, you can vote in Florida in 14 different languages, so if PR becomes a state I see no reason why Spanish shouldn’t and coundn’t be Spainish with English as a requirement but Spainish is the cultural and primary language that is used in bussiness and in schools. I believe that schools in PR are taught in Spanish but every school year also has English as a mandator class also. So everyone in PR should be fluent in Spanish and English, or am i missing something. (a neighbor told me about this so not sure)

    • on October 19, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Reply larroyo@ymail.com

      I think all Americans, including Puerto Ricans, should speak 3 languages,….English,Spanish (which gives us a head start in understanding Portuguese if Brazil takes off.) As well as Chinese (which I believe is similar to Japanese and other regional asian languages.) My point is, if all Americans knew a little spanish, they would not feel awkward or offended at the sight of immigrant hispanics speaking spanish. In fact, they may join in friendly conversation with the immigrants “helping”the American with a word here or there. And Vice Versa. Puerto Rico will not be the first hispanic state. That honor went to New Mexico, wich was 50% Hispanic-Mexican & Spaniards (“Hispano”) when it became a state. Of Course the Anglo 50% had much of the ,if not all the political power. Yet, official government business was done with Translators for years, untill the Mexicans either assimilated, or left for the Midwest (Chicago) and California.

      Puerto Rico isn’t likely to loose its Puerto Rican Majority. Unless it becomes independent by force, causing an exodus to the US Mainland. In that case, the new Puerto Rico Republic may have to encourage mass immigration to the island nation ti fill the void. Most likely Dominicans, Haitians, Cubans, Venezuelans. I’m sure (hope)I’m wrong, but its just a thought.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

  127. To start with John, no culture is ever preserved for ever. My ancestors came to America in the 1630’s from England. I have no clue what it is to be English and even American-English is a far cry from UK English language. After so many generations removed from my ancestors in the UK I really don’t care that I no longer am instilled with the English culture. I am proud of my American culture. 100, 200 years from now who knows what the American culture will look like. But who really cares for I won’t be around then anyways.

    As for teaching English here in schools, you couldn’t be further from the truth. English is not a requirement here and has not been since the 1950’s. Very few people in PRico have strong bilingual skills. Shameful because it only hurts the children who would like someday to move to the U.S. for a better job.

    Language is important in order to communicate effectively. If everyone decided to do their own thing think of the confusion it would create. I’m sorry, but I do believe there should be only one primary language throughout all of the United States when conducting business, government or private. If you are at work please speak the language most everyone in the work place speaks, otherwise it appears rude. Certainly U.S. territories are allowed this exception unless you are working for a U.S. based company and staffed by Americans. Providing voting ballots in 14 different languages as you claim is a nice way of showing everyone who is eligible to vote they are welcomed. But it cost the states additional money they really do not have and could be better served spending it elsewhere, in my opinion. Besides, most of the information concerning each candidate is in English, so to be able to make a more informed decision, and save the states money, learn English.

    • on October 19, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Reply larroyo@ymail.com

      English SHOULD be the unifying language. If Puerto Rico Becomes a state, Non hispanics moving there SHOULD expect bilingual forms. Hispanics expect this today as we live in the states. And for the most part, get it.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • How about Americans and other English speakers get off THEIR lazy butts and learn some freaking Spanish instead of always ASSUMING there’ll be someone or something in English and they can just glide by?!?!

        HALF the world speaks Spanish!!! There is NO rational reason why any individual, company, or country can’t learn it yet have this imperialistic, arrogant view of making everyone learn English!!! It can’t get any simpler than this.

      • on October 22, 2012 at 6:22 pm larroyo@ymail.com

        body {word-wrap: break-word; background-color:#ffffff;}I believe every AmeRican (see how I snuck that in there?) should speak English, Spanish, and Chinese (or)Japanese.  I believe South America and Asia will join Europe and North America in Economic might.  Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • LOL…yeah I saw that. Cute. But I agree as long as (as you claim) it applies to <everyone. The MAJOR problem is (which I´ve pointed out several times and which MANY of my fellow Puerto Ricans that live on the island complain about) that most white Americans are just hypocrites that want to force every Latino, European and Asian to speak English but don't want to bother learning another language. Just look at our laughable foreign language requirements in schools! It's pathetic. So I say…unless a law passes that forces EVERYONE to learn another language, learn the language of the country you´re in or planning to do business in. In the States, speak English. In Puerto Rico, speak Spanish. If it´s not that "hard" to learn English, it certainly isn`t that hard to learn some Spanish which ironically has a longer historythan English in the southern states.

  128. The real reason why the majority of Congress will not vote for Puerto Rico to become the 51st state has absolutely nothing to do with racist attitudes although this is a tactic that is being used to try and force Congress to vote for statehood. The “I don’t want to be labeled a racist so I will vote in favor of statehood” tactic. But it won’t work. This will also prevent the “Tennessee Statehood” style tactic from working as well. If PRico sends Congressional Representatives to Washington they will be sent away. Why? What the majority of Congressmen know is that by allowing PRico to become the 51st state, it will overwhelmingly offset the political balance by giving the American Democratic party several million more registered voters. Why? Because most PRican voters who claim to be Republicans are really Democrats as most of the Hispanics claim to be in the U.S. The only reason why they are registered Republicans in PRico is because the way each party is tied to a status. Republicans are the statehood party, Democrats are for Enhanced Commonwealth. Remove those labels and most everyone will vote for the Democratic candidates. Ask yourself why Gov. Fortuno is promising more money and entitlements for everyone if PRico becomes a state? Those are things the Democrats promise in the U.S. to win votes. And the Democratic party wants your vote so they can stay in power. It’s not about racism. It’s about preserving the balance of power. A Democratic party control of the United States would surely drive it towards a European type socialist country. Or a more extreme push to the left with a huge central government and weakened states and individual rights. We will cease to have “God given individual rights.” And in the end we will be working on community farms just to earn our daily ration of rice and beans, and a roof over our heads just the way Venezuelans live. Sorry, not for me! Vote YES on the first question, or vote for Independence on the second question.

    • When all emotion is stripped from the argument, flyboy’s response is what is left. I think his is an excellent explanation of the reality of modern politics. Personally, I would love to see PR become a state. Unfortunately when the government tries to bribe and leverage votes with shady promises, the deal of statehood becomes less sweet.

  129. I’m a Puerto Rican born in New York, lived in NJ almost all my life and have spent the last 2 years in Spain since I refuse to live in the direction the States are heading to now where they try to force their stupid highly capitalist and often times racist agendas on me.

    But I’ve always taken an interest in my island and I always will. And maybe someday after I’ve travelled the world (and when PR becomes more Democratic and less Republican-What the hell good is that dumb party doing for us?!) I’ll move back to Puerto Rico since my dad has land there. You see, we CAN become very self-sufficient if we return to farming and agriculture which of course might seem like a hard life for some. My dad says we have 1) the biggest pineapples in the USA 2) The juiceist pineapple in the USA 3) Best cafe 4) And we can produce many other foods. I think that if most people don’t want to return to farming, then we should implement a sort of conscription farming where a certain number of people are recruited to farm for a certain time before other people take their turn and so forth. After all, if many places have a such thing as conscript soldiers for the reality that most people don’t want to go to war, why can’t there be conscription farming? We can build the country’s agriculture and economy that way and lower the cost of most food since we won’t have to import it.

    Now…I want to address certain things people like Bruce brought up. 1) Why is that you people clamor for us Puerto Ricans to learn English even in our island (since like it or not, you’re living there now, Bruce) when by your OWN logic, you should assimilate and learn Spanish (which actually by your quotes you know quite well unless you were just quoting without knowing what was said) But if that was the case, why the fervor to learn English?! Especially if you’re in Puerto Rico now?! Then by all rights Puerto Ricans living in the States should KEEP their Spanish language! And in case you forgot, it’s NOT the USA. It’s a commonwealth of it certainly, but it’s NOT the mainland and maybe if you feel so pro-American or whatever you should do what you and many other North Americans tell us Latinos when we don’t adhere to their beliefs-MOVE BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY! Why the hell are you complaining about PR “taking money from the USA” and all that other BS (stuff I’ll address later) when you’re LIVING on the island now complaining about the lack of English on the ISLAND?! Hypocrite much?!

    2) The MYTH that Puerto Ricans and other Latinos for that matter “mooch” of the American taxpayer and that that automatically gives them a right to have a say in OUR future. So…I guess that because some of MY tax paying money (as a Puerto Rican born in the States) goes to Texas or other states I have a stake in THEIR future too. I really hope so, because the South is a backwards, racist pithole that needs to eventually either secede or be more like the North in mind-set. Oh but gee…like someone mentioned, isn’t that what started the whole stupid Tea Party BS in the first place?! The states wanted more autonomy from the Federal gov.? So…it’s ok for the majorly white Southern and Mid West states to want more autonomy from the the gov. with mostly NORTHERN States’ money, but heaven forbid PR does the same thing with American money?! Again…serious hypocrisy on the Tea Party and whoever sides with them.

    Also…why the HELL does every stupid Republican say the same crap and feed the lies of Welfare, Medicaid, etc. to everyone?! Here’s the truth folks…even WITH Welfare and Medicaid, that’s barely enough to live on. That’s the whole reason why many seniors must also have some sort of Medicaid Supplement. It doesn’t cover that much. And very few people that do abuse the system make as much a dent in the economy as the REAL moochers: RICH, WHITE people!!!! So…you don’t mind giving subsidies and tax cuts to Mr. Golf Course who will probably put that many in a foreign bank or buy a yacht or another house or maybe a house for their dog and who make millions watching their money grow on Wall Street (the people that put us in this mess), but you cry “moocher!” for people that work 2-3 jobs cleaning houses, working as teachers, etc. and only want their more than fair share of the government they help PAY for with work and taxes in living an affordable life without having to pay $1,000 on a doctor’s visit or for insurances that STILL want to tell what they will and won’t cover all while taking your money! (Not like they refund it if they DON’T cover you!) Again…you stupid, foolish hypocrites…You’d defend the rich but bury the poor. And most of the time those poor are the elderly, students and minorities. Keep buying into their “Trickle Down” mentality. That’s exactly what that shit is…you give them a $50 and pennies will trickle down. Tell me what’s really hurting this economy…all the Welfare, etc or the super-rich and their loopholes from paying the same taxes as the rest of us if not a bit more! Truth is…Welfare doesn’t even COMPARE to the freebies the already super rich get. (Tell me why Teresa from Real Housewives of NJ claimed bankrupcy but was still shown to keep and live in their big fancy house, buy designer clothes, and throw expensive parties because she was rich and Italian but oh if she’d been a poor, black or Latina woman the freaking IRS would’ve sent her the eviction notice LONG ago! Kindly shove your stupid, biased and capitalist BS up thy butts!

    3) A few people said something like “Oh in Florida we speak English” or whatever crap. Newsflash: Florida was a SPANISH colony LONG before it belonged to the USA and the same goes for most of the south which belonged to Mexico! Spanish was the 1st language there before you people did what you accuse Mexicans and Latinos of doing now: stooping! The Mexicans let you settle in Texas with the only real requirements being: Spanish was still to be the official language and Catholic the official religion! In a case of throwing back the Mexican’s kindness in their faces with war, Texas was free until it wanted statehood. I DO hope the Mexicans one day win back the land you people stole from them, but suffice it to say that Spanish has a MUCH longer history in Florida or the South than your English so by all rights… LEARN SOME FREAKING SPANISH!!!! I DESPISE how much these American imperialists clamor for people to learn English in the States but the moment they set foot in another country, they STILL expect those people to speak English instead of trying to learn THEIR language! Maybe that’s why the French hate you so much! In France, speak some damn FRENCH! In PR, speak some freaking Spanish, Bruce! In Florida or even Texas or Arizona, also learn some freaking Spanish because chances are that there have many Mexican descendants whose families stayed in those areas LONG before the war that made the states American and whose families were there even longer than most white people’s families! So quit your racist and imperialistic mindset everyone!

    In conclusion, I urge EVERYONE to remember to treat people the way they want to be treated and if you’d have a Puerto Rican learn English in the States, learn some freaking Spanish in Puerto Rico and shut up about the “lack” of English! It’s Puerto Rico! If you wanna whine and cry about Welfare and all those other Republican fed lies, remember all the rich white folks wiping their butts with your subsidies as well and getting tax cuts while most of that money sits in Swiss banks leaving only pennies to “trickle down!!!” When the USA becomes an honorable country again and no longer holds PR, maybe I’ll return but for now I’ll stay in Spain! I left precisely because I couldn’t stand this exact hypocrisy anymore!!!! I really, REALLY hope this changes and people wise up! One day I’ll help PR’s economy by going back and starting a farm since we also can’t ask people to do what we wouldn’t do ourselves.

    I apologize if I “ranted” but I had to educate and correct the blatant lies and hypocrisies I was seeing about my beautiful island. The Republican party and typical WASP mindset of the mainland are the WORST things to happen to my island! ¡¡¡¡Viva Borikén Libre!!!!

  130. I accidentally posted a typo in my impassioned speech: I meant to say that the people on Welfare or other gov. funded programs do NOT make NEARLY the same dent in the economy as the super rich who avoid paying taxes due to dumb loopholes and who get subsidies and tax cuts!!!!

    Secondly, I want to address the racist prick that claimed hearing Spanish in the workplace was “annoying and unprofessional” but then said that some French or Dutch is “ok.”

    Heh…oh how I wish such people said such bull crap to my face. I LIVE to put these a**holes in their place!

    Tell me this Mr. “I’m-not racist-honest” how is speaking a language that LITERALLY half the world INCLUDING the USA speaks is “annoying and unprofessional” but the “white” languages of Dutch and French that you BARELY hear outside their respective countries is acceptable?!?!? Tell me just ONE viable excuse! But you folks just keep proving your blatant racism and we can see right through it. So…point is: you white Americans need to get off YOUR lazy butts and actually realize that you need to learn Spanish just as much as you claim we need to learn English. Next to English and maybe Chinese in the business setting, the major language is SPANISH! HALF THE WORLD SPEAKS IT!!!!

    If you don’t get WITH it, you need to get OFF it! So get off your high horses!!!

  131. “I had to educate and correct the blatant lies and hypocrisies I was seeing about my beautiful island.” pagansun

    This coming from someone who, by his own words, has never lived here. Has no real stake in what happens here. You couldn’t deal with problems in the U.S. so you run away to Spain. Judging by your communistic views I can see why you ran to Spain. So how’s Spain’s economy doing these days? Judging by your mostly ignorant, angry rant about how Americans stole land from the Mexicans you obviously chose to ignore Spain’s conquering history of the new world in which they destroyed highly cultured civilizations, destroyed the land in pursuit of gold and silver so they could bring it back to Spain to be used to go to WAR with Spain’s enemies. They destroyed existing government systems and left nothing in it’s place which is why so many latin american countries are still struggling today. Say what you will about an anglo-saxon style of rule, at least it provides for a strong democratic system to build upon. It is a system that works well in capitalist or socialist economies. Many of England’s old colonies such as South Africa and Hong Kong are thriving today because of the anglo-saxon style of government. Try enlightening yourself by watching the documentary “When the Old World met the New World.” You may not be so pro-Spain afterwards.

    • I’ve never lived there. So what?! I’m still Puerto Rican and have been there many, MANY times most times seeing parts of Puerto Rico most people living in San Juan have NEVER seen: EL Yunque, Rincón, Arecibo, Ponce, San Juan, Guayanilla, Fajardo, etc. Plus, I’m actually a Puerto Rican rather than white Americans living on the island thinking they get a say or white Americans in the States thinking they get a say. My father has land there and it’s my culture. I GET A SAY.

      Yes, I “ran away” to Spain because I was tired of trying to educate bigoted hypocrites who deep down didn’t want to be educate and I’m not going to let those people influence my life. LOL…and judging by your capitalist and Republican views I’m surprised why you DIDN’T run away to the mainland since you claim to love it so much. Yet why don’t you follow the advice of what so many white Americans tell US to do when we don’t like something. MOVE.

      I’M mostly ignorant? Yeah right…No, I didn’t ignore it. I know what Spain did. I despise what they DID, but I can’t despise THEM since they’re my ancestors and in the two years I’ve been here, I’ve been accepted and tolerated FAR more than I’ve ever been in the states. Spain actually hates how the USA is treating Puerto Rico (ironic I know) and also state for them to make it a state or let it be independant.

      “A strong democratic system to build upon.” Ha! How naive…Yeah, if you’re rich and white. Even now your beloved Republican party is scrambling to suppress voters and ignores Congress’ motions to stop. At least we had and still do have things in common with Spain. The USA wants nothing but make other, existing countries exactly like it. Democracy works well ONLY when all the people voting are actually educated on the issues at hand. The reason why MANY democracies fail or are pure shams is because you have people voting on decisions they know NOTHING about! Bad democracies can hurt just as much as bad communist societies only the higher ups will trick you into thinking that’s what you want! And that’s the trend I’m seeing in the USA, the rich are getting richer and are spending their hand outs on big houses, fancy clothes yet I don’t hear you complaining. And the poor are only getting poorer…yet you’d still deny them their fair share.

      LOL…I know my history. I know what Spain did. The difference is, Spain grew up. Being an Old World, it learned or at least is trying to learn from its past mistakes. The young “history is boring” USA still has to.

  132. Plus, people who live in PR but are NOT Puerto Rican shouldn’t be able to vote! Just like most Americans claim that immigrants (illegal or not) or non citizens shouldn’t be able to vote on THEIR affairs. Again….let’s stop the hypocrisy. People should only vote for Puerto Rican affairs if they’re ethnically Puerto Rican (and maybe if they live there).

    • HUH?!?!?!?!?!? Did your parents have any kids that lived sun? That has to be one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve read in a very long time. Please, stay in Spain for as long as you want.

      • on October 22, 2012 at 1:36 pm larroyo@ymail.com

        body {word-wrap: break-word; background-color:#ffffff;}That statement triggered my long response, LOLConnected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • That “lived sun”?!?! Did you mean “love?” And so what?!?! Again…it PISSES me off when white Americans want the options they refuse to give to other people. I don’t see Americans in China, Japan, Europe, etc. voting or getting any political say in THOSE countries many of which (except China) are democratic but then when people want to give “illegals” or other residents a voice in the states oh then watch your party go up in arms about how they’re not “American” and shouldn’t get a say! Yet YOU want one just because you happen to live there. What bull crap…So I guess I can rejoice that many “non-Americans” will get a say in the US policy. Cuz hey by your own logic…And oh trust me, I will but please move to the mainland. Your mentality is more appropriate there than on my beloved island. We don’t need any more of your crap.

      • That “lived sun”?!?! Did you mean “love?” Sun

        Just read that line again sloooooowly. I ask that question because I think you in were born brain dead.

      • I did. What you wrote: “Did your parents have any kids that lived sun?” So…go ahead and explain to me what that meant. I’M brain-dead?! LOL…you’re a non-pUerto Rican that wants to muscle in on OUR business yet STILL has not addressed my points on how you would handle illegals or other such immigrants voting on American policies. You’re a self-entitled, imperialist jerk that knows NOTHING about my country yet has a typical American mind-set on how we should behave and speak. Seriously either move or switch parities because either way, you’re a hypocrite. If you disagree, tell me what’s wrong with my viewpoints and show me how you’re NOT hypocritical instead of just flingling useless insults on a blog you really shouldn’t even BE on.

  133. LOL…and you admitted before that your ancestors were from England, flyboy. Haha! of course you don’t care then about Puerto Rican history! But then by what freaking right do you THINK you get a say in OUR problems?!?! Are you clamoring for non-American citizens to get a vote or say in American politics?! If you’re not Puerto Rican ethnically, you should’t get a say. You wanna vote on something whose history you care nothing for, whose language and culture you don’t share, and yet whose actions if independent will not make you a Puerto Rican citizen?!?! Stay out of our problems and move back to the States if you love it so much just like many of your kind tell us to do. Which some (like me) did.

    • Let’s see…because I live here, pay taxes, own a home and I am a registered voter. That and the fact that Puerto Rico is a democracy, gives me the right to decide what happens to Puerto Rico. And by your own argument just being Puerto Rican-American gives you the right to decide what’s best for Puerto Rico, then because I am English-American I should be able to decide what is best for England. Is that right? Most people find that argument a crock a shit. Put your money where your mouth is and move here and live the life, don’t just romanticize about it through your father’s dreams.

      • Well gee…aren’t YOU special? Not. In fact, that sounds like the fate of MOST illegals and even permanent residents that live, work AND pay taxes in the good ol’ US of A but STILL are denied any voice in the policies that shape it! If THEY have to deal with it, so do you! You’re not Puerto Rican, you don’t get a say! And if you still somehow feel you do, lets see you march around for that same right for everyone else who has lived, worked and paid taxes in America but still aren’t “Americans.” Still smells like hypocrisy to me.

        America is a democracy too, but illegals can’t vote in the States for THEIR future yet you who aren’t even Puerto Rican want a say in OUR business?!?! Yeah and?! I’m Puerto Rican, you’re not. You just live there. You don’t get a say. It’s MY country, MY culture, and I actually know what’s going on. Perhaps the Puerto Ricans who don’t live in Puerto Rico should get a vote if they can pass some sort of exam letting the Puerto Rican government know they know what’s going on. But why should YOU who doesn’t even share our race, culture, or history get a say in OUR business when by your own love for your “dear” Tea Party or Republican gov. you’d deny that right to the “illegals” who have lived, worked and paid taxes here sometimes their entire lives?!?!? I’m calling out your hypocrisy…

        And most people find YOUR argument PURE shit. Just cuz you live there doesn’t mean you should get a say! Just look at how most Americans (even you) view the “illegals” who have lived, worked AND paid taxes here and NEVER get a say yet America is suposed to be a democracy too so what the hell?!?! You can’t get it both ways! If you think YOU’RE entitled, then so are THEY!!!!

        Pal, I have. My grandparents are STILL living on the farm growing chick peas and tending cattle so dont’ you DARE talk about the “hard life!” You don’t know shit about Puerto Rico and are just another imperilaist trying to tell US what to do with OUR country. Go back to your beloved USA and leave our problems to US. Tend some chickens, cattle, goats, earn pennies a day and THEN talk about the “hard life.” YOUR people have had it easy so don’t freaking pretend some BS that you’re somehow in the same boat with us. You’re NOT and never will be.

  134. And you certainly are a little entitled bastard aren’t you thinking companies are there for your needs. Grow up you little shit! Live in the real world. I served my country in the military for over 20 years which is why I can sit here at my keyboard and pound away all day. What the hell do you do all day beside pound on your silly ass keyboard?

    • YOU’RE the “entitled bastard” if you think companies that go to PUERTO RICO AREN’T there for OUR needs, if not, they have NO freaking right to BE there!!! What about that is hard for your simple, arrogant mind to comprehend?!?! Shut the fuck up already you bull-headed imperialist asshole!!!! Puerto Rico is MY country and I don’t give a shit how many years you’ve lived there or whatever, you’re NOT Puerto Rican!!! And if you still want to say, let’s see you demand the SAME rights for the illegals and other immigrants which we BOTH know you’ll NEVER do!!!

      Cram your bigoted, English-imperialst, American loving shit up your pasty ass!!!! You served in the military? Wow…give the special one a freaking medal!!! So did my grandpa, asshole and so did MILLIONS of Puerto Ricans (not just those that merely live on the island like you). What the fuck do YOU do, loser?!?! As far as I can see, you pound your silly little kepboard just as much, you freaking hypocrite!

      Get the hell over yourself! You have just as much a chance at changing Puerto Rico as other immigrants have at changing the states.

      • Although I welcome a very healthy debate in this forum, please refrain from name-calling? Thank you.

      • “YOU’RE the “entitled bastard” if you think companies that go to PUERTO RICO AREN’T there for OUR needs, if not, they have NO freaking right to BE there!!!” The PaganSun

        I think I am starting to see the logic behind your thinking…Please, don’t call us, we’ll call you if we need your services. Good bye.

    • Then YOUR stupid ass better get over making Latinos and Mexicans and Europeans and Chinese learn your stupid ass English since THEIR compaies AREN’T there for YOUR needs either by your OWN troll logic!!! I’d love to see the day white Americans take their OWN crazy ass advice they try to froce feed everyone else!!!! No wonder most people aren’t buying it!!! You talk nothing but total and complete bull!!! I guess Americans that live in Japan, China, or Europe, want a say in THEIR countries too?!?! Well, then let’s give the illgeals the right!!!! Try to prove to me how you’re NOT being a hypocritical trolling imperialist and THEN talk otherwise you’re just full of crap.

      • “I think I see the logic behind your thinking…Please don’t call us, we’ll call you if we need your services. Good bye.” _Flyboy.

        Well…I don’t know whether you “caught my logic” or not but I”ve certainly called you out on yours which to my main points, you’ve NEVER responded to only saying some such crap about Spain and how you think you’re entitled to get a say on MY island when you know nothing about it (and would laugh away its history and force them to speak English) let would deny illegals and other immigrants that VERY right in the States you’d arrogantly have for YOURSELF on Puerto Rico. So, Mexicans and Latinos must learn English in the States but WE’RE entitled if we expect YOU assholes to learn Spanish on OUR island which has the kindness to house you?!?! *rolls eyes* How ever did I get the idea you were an imperialist…give me a freaking break.

        Oh well. It’s ok. You can’t back up your claims or refute mine because there ISN’T a rebuttal to it. Once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite. And you people keep proving why I can no longer stand the States. Leave Puerto Ricans problems to Puerto Ricans, buddy. If we need your kind of help, WE’LL ask for it. And we DON’T. So leave us the hell alone.

      • I feel that you may be giving any one poster on this thread too much credit, TPS. Not a single person responding to this blog is responsible for English being the dominant language for world business. The fact that most industrialized countries on this planet are moving to a bloated globalist economy only reinforces the need for a common language to have any chance at working. Because of events that transpired long before this blog was created, English happens to be that language. Unless you enjoy traveling the path of the fool, you may wish to recompose yourself if you want to be taken seriously.

      • Sorry Julito, but truly flyboy was the first to get nasty. I simply responded in kind. LOL…He’s not even Puerto Rican and shouldn’t BE on this blog. Just some tourist that never decided to leave…

        Seeking dharma-I know. I was pointing out the hypocrisy (stated many times by flyboy and his followers) of not wanting to speak Spanish (when it’s the language of literally half the world and there’s NO rational reason why some “good” compay can’t offer courses and have most its empolyers be bilingual) yet be up in arms (most Republicans are) about immigrants learning English in the States. Tell me that’s not hypocritical BS.

      • Why can’t “good” businesses offer courses and have their employees be bilingual? That’s a good question. In a perfect world, I would think all businesses would embrace being bilingual. The problem is that business looks out for business. In this world, there are more companies who actively do business in English than any other language. When Japan was booming and looking to dominate the technology markets, Japanese was a good language to learn and some companies made certain their employees became versed in the language. Today, China and India are the epicenters of big growth due to outsourcing and manufacturing. Businesses are paying good money for people to speak those languages. Spanish isn’t just forgotten in the business world, though. Anyone wishing to do business in Spain and Lantin America will need to be bilingual to succeed. The sad truth there is that the Latin American countries are not yet able to court big business to build or process on their land. If Mexico suddenly said there was no more threat of drug violence and they now had the resources to host a wide variety of manufacturing to compete with China, Spanish would reign supreme! It is not a racial discrimination. It is all about who can make the businesses the most money. Therefore, the irrational business decisions we see every day suddenly seem to make sense.

        This is, of course, a completely separate issue from the main point of this blog which is Puerto Rico properly and justly seeking representation as a state, and wether or not that is likely to happen. Regarding Statehood, I think it is, and should always be, entirely up to the people of PR to decide how they want to exist in this world. Seeking statehood should never be taken lightly. Anyone analyzing the political theater should take an objective look at all the actions of their political leaders and start by getting real representation at the level of the Governor. The people of PR need leadership that will take positions and actions that are justly aligned with the mindset of the PR people. Once PR has that, they can forge their destiny with pride.

      • Seeking dharma-Thanks for being so respectful and I will try to be so in kind. Quite honestly though, why does the world have to “perfect” simply to ask one to speak English in Latin America when one practically forces others to speak English in the States? No, it´s not too much to ask at all. “Good” businesses would and will offer language courses much like they already do for ESL. And truth be told, Latin America is certainly growing! Is it growing to the extent of Japan or China? No, but places like Argentina, Venezuela, etc. are still growing and the lame excuse that just because they’re not “booming” is NO reason why someone wants to do business with Latin America, they can’t speak Spanish. The excuse is getting old fast and holds no wieght. Why do business with them at all then if you do not want to learn their culture and language? Oh right…becuase we’re good enough to take advantage of and abuse in our OWN countries but heaven forbid we ask that you learn OUR language. No….it IS racism, hypocrisy, and frankly laziness, pure and simple.

        And people like Flyboy that claimed that “culture is not preserved forever” is forgetting that one’s culture is not preserved when one MOVES TO ANOTHER PLACE. His family ASSIMILATED into American culture but last time I checked England proper still has its own culture! So…if one moves to Puerto Rico, expect to be assimilated into OUR culture! You can’t go to Puerto Rico and expect it to be the States! It’s NOT and know you know why most of us will NEVER vote for statehood. Because we hate having white imperialists permananet tourists like flyboy who think that just because they live there yet don’t share the culture, admitted he cared nothing for our history, and wants us to speak English, try to tell US what do to in our OWN country! Yet meanwhile when many immigrants to States (mostly Mexicans) that slave away for you most times not even seeing half the money Flyboy so kindly makes off Puerto Ricans, the Republican party makes sure such people don’t get a voice! Such people as he don’t even BELONG on the island let alone get a say in it. If he wants Puerto Ricans to be bilingual: LET’S START WITH THE STATES! I think it’s shameful that half the United States has had a longer history of Spanish than English but most people don’t even know how to say “por favor” correctly nor get good jobs. And this flyboy apparently seems to think the only “good jobs” are the ones where English is required but if he lived in DC, he’d know that even there my friend had a hard time finding a good job because she didn’t speak SPANISH! So…it’s important to be bilingual on BOTH sides of the table. Seriously…people like Flyboy need to lay off the hypocrisy. It’s pissing me off and making me hate imperialists even more. If people have such love for English and the States, move and live there! But it’s EXTREMELY arrogant to try to make ANOTHER country or place something it’s NOT. Don’t try to make Puerto Rico the United States, flyboy. It’s not and hopefully never will be. Or else don’t complain when Mexicans cross the border and try to take back land that actually once WAS theirs. Hey…it’s only fair, right?

        Anyway Seeking dharma- Yes, in the end, Puerto Ricans fate should be decided by PUERTO RICANS preferably that live on the island but maybe those of us that don’t could take and pass some kind of government test to prove we know what’s going on, that should be allowed too. Like I said, I want what’s FAIR and JUST. People shouldn’t waltz into Japan or Latin America and Europe and expect it to BE the States. For that, live in the States. But if EVERYONE takes some sort of bilingual class, that would be for the best. But to anyone that wants to CHANGE our ways and culture, lay down your imperialist ways and either get WITH us or get OFF us!

      • Sorry if I sounded angry, Seeking Dharma. I certianly am but not at you. Just some of the self-seving, heavily entitled and imperialist comments here pissed me off. But it’s not your fault and I was mostly ranting in general…and at that flyboy fool.

  135. Some of the children that post here Julito just get so rattled up they can’t control themselves as is the case with ThePaganSun. I really don’t want to see him have a mental breakdown which you could be liable for, so I will discontinue my dialog with him.

    • Ha. Good one. And yet this “child” has brought up some valid points on your Republican and imperilaist views that YOU’VE yet to defend. There isn’t a defense for such blatant hypocrisy and imperialism. Thanks for playing though. Puerto Rico will decide its OWN fate via PUERTO RICANS not tourists that never decided to leave.

  136. Wow i leave for a few day’s and all this, this is great, I reallied loved reading all of this and comming to understand that to be PR all you have to do is have at one time family that was born there. Well TPS, for your info to be Puerto Rican MEANS you are American, if you don’t think this is true learn history. Prior to the U.S. freeing (i know this is going to cause problems) PR, there wasn’t a PR and there never has been a PR. So by your own logic you are what your ancestry’s were you were born in New York, so you are an AMERICAN not a Puerto Rican, you are descentant from PR which in turn means you are descentant from African Slaves, Spanish Coloninalist, and yes Many many WHITE American’s and many more other carribean island descentants. How can you claim to be allow to have a say in PR when you 1. don’t live there, 2. have never lived there; 3. Were not born there; and (here’s the biggest one) 4. There isn’t anyone who is a Pureto Rican Citizen. (No such thing as a PR citizen). I just get upset that so many people have bleed and died so people can say they live in a Free society and than you have people that are born here when Millions of people want to come here and all they do is bitch about it. Well I for one am glad you nolonger live here, and one thing i do agree with you about is if you live in a country you speak their language, but where i disagree with you is the U.S. You state we whites should learn Spanish but in Florida there is a law that states English is the offical language so do you feel that if you lived here you should speak English, i bet your answer is no, but you yourself yell at others for not speaking Spanish in PR but you don’t respect our language, like i said Glad you not here anymore.

    • Ha. Yeah, I “loved” reading your comments too, John. Gotta love how to be “American” all one has to do is be white and act like you have a say in ALL matters but yet we Puerto Ricans that these laws will ACTUALLY affect “don´t get a say”?! That really tickles me pink. We actually share the culture (my granparents were BORN there FYI and my father was RAISED there so it’s not like we´re like you white Americans whose family left England and fought in the Civial War or some crap…don’t lump us int here with you) but YOU people who have NO idea how the culture works and STILL want YOUR say?!

      I am PUERTO RICAN, “pal.” I had NO say where my parents were born but my blood and ancestry is Puerto Rican. Dude, I KNOW that Puerto Ricans have US citizenship but whether you believe it or not, we’re treated differently and share a different culture. HAHAHA! Wow…that’s the biggest load of bullshit ever. The US “freed” PR. Yeah, ok. The USA conspired to enter a war with Spain when PR was on the verge of its indepenedence from Spain because it wanted control of the Caribbean islands and through them Latin America (kind of like what it’s doing NOW with the Middle East for its oil…oh wait…you’re probably Republican and actually BELIEVED Bush’s lies…big surprise.) But don’t act like as if the USA was “noble” and did it to “free” us (Self-righteous, much?) It did it for its OWN selfish reasons exactly like what it’s doing now and has awlays done. SPAIN named us Puerto Rico (before we were Boriken) whereas YOU people still stupidly refer to us as “Porto” Rico and can’t even say OR spell our name right so quit acting like we owe you something and quit acting like you “made us” or whatever. If anything you owe US for 114 years of colonization. And you people can’t even speak our language despite the fact that the lower half of the states (also the hypocritical, Republican half) has had SPANISH longer than English yet most white people down there can barely speak the language.

      I have a claim because I 1) have Puerto Rican blood and am only a 3rd generation (as opposed to millions of white Americans that can’t even remember where THEIR ancestors came from) 2) Have been there MANY times and have visited places people in San Juan never set foot in 3) My dad has land there. But why is that you WHITE people feel that YOU get a say for the MERE reasont that you’re just tourists that never left?! It’s not like YOU assimilated? Do you share our history, culture, and speak Spanish?! Or are you like Flyboy who finds our history “boring” and “shameful” that we can’t speak English let lives in PR and feels as though he’s “entitled” to a say? Alright. Let’s say that merely living, working and paying taxes gets you a say. Then please explain to me, Mr. Republican…why is that you and your party refuse that same RIGHT to millions of immigrants whether “illegal” or not?!?!?! They ALSO live, work, pay taxes (and most times get treated horribly and taken advantage of) yet YOUR party marches everyday to see that they NEVER get a voice in their own fate! Now that the shoes’ on the other foot….YOU want a say?!?! You guys will always be nothing but hypocrites pure and simple. You call out “Love America or leave it” but yet when visiting or living in ANOTHER country or place, YOU don’t adapt…so why should other people that move to the mainland. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!!

      Your tired that people come to the States only to “bitch about it”? Well, ok. Fair enough. That’s exactly why I left. But then why can’t YOU see that YOU white people do the SAME DAMN THING and come to PR (like Flyboy) or other countries and expect THOSE places to BE the States when if you loved it so much you never should’ve left?!?! You guys do the SAME thing you accuse US of doing and that’s what I hate! At least I left the States whereas your friend the white, Republican Flyboy is bitching about MY country yet I don’t see HIM hopping a plane or boat to go to “totally rad USA”! Why is that?!?! Because he’s a damn hypocrite.

      And as far as the Federal government is concerned the USA has NO offical langauge. What you are talking about is the power of the States vs the power of the Federal gov which proves my other point about how your party is hypocritical. Spanish has a longer history than English in the south yet many states want people to speak English…ok. Then it’s COMPLETELY understandable if you’re in PR to speak SPANISH and even when if it DOES become a state because hey….you want states to have the power, right? And if PR passes a law (even if it becomes a state) that you must speak Spanish or be bilingual then YOU must obey…hey if want us to obey in Florida…So tell me…would that not be fair? Or will you prove your hypocrisy once again? That somehow the Southern States are allowed to pass laws and make people adapt to them but it’s ok when others refuse to adapt in PR?!?! And you’re wrong…I feel that if you’re in the States you should be expected to know or speak some level of English…but AGAIN…why is too much to ask when people come to PR (whether or not it becomes a state) to expect people to know some level of SPANISH??? You’re the one who is showing himself to be a hypocrite, not me.

      And don’t worry. I’m VERY glad too that I’m not there anymore, but I hope you never leave the States if you love it so much and do what your friend Flyboy did and move somewhere else yet expect it to be your precious “land of the free.” For that, stay right where you are and leave my PR alone.

  137. All i can say is really, you have a limited sight of what you are saying, since Spanish has been spoken in the south longer than English we should speak Spanish than by your own statement’s we in Florida should be speaking one of this tribes languages: •The Ais
    •The Calusa
    •The Miccosukee
    •The Timucua
    •The Seminole
    they were here long before the Spanish, and their language has been spoken here longer than Spanish so we should speak one of these, by that theory you being Puerto Rican shouldn’t speak Spanish either you should speak the native langauge of the Taíno Indians, “a subgroup of the Arawakan Indians (a group of American Indians in northeastern South America), inhabited the Greater Antilles (comprising Cuba, Jamaica, Hispaniola [Haiti and the Dominican Republic], and Puerto Rico) in the Caribbean Sea at the time when Christopher Columbus’ arrived to the New World.” Do you see the error in your thinking, ( I don’t think you do). As for why some people are allowed to Vote and others are not allowed a say, some are legal and some are NOT. If you legally live and reside in a country then you should have a say in what happens there.
    My other question to you is at what generation is the cut off for being allowed to have a say in things happening in another country than the one you live in. Yes i am descentant from by the way Eastern Europe, but it has been 4 generations, so should i get a vote in Russia. You are 3rd removed and you feel you get a say in PR so is 4th generation ok also or only 2nd and 3rd generations are ok. You logic is flawed, and you agruments are minor and childish; you cannot even make a point that makes sense. If you wish to continue to have a battle of the minds on this forum please, get a friend to help you cause you are lacking in some of the requirements.
    Oh and one more thing, i didn’t say: “Your tired that people come to the States only to “bitch about it”? ” I said: “I just get upset that so many people have bleed and died so people can say they live in a Free society and than you have people that are born here when Millions of people want to come here and all they do is bitch about it.” NOW what this means is that the people whom live here are Bitching and there are millions that what to live here, so inother words, people like you should leave so we can get others that want to be here in a FREE society.

    • “YOU’RE the “entitled bastard” if you think companies that go to PUERTO RICO AREN’T there for OUR needs, if not, they have NO freaking right to BE there!!!” The PaganSun

      I just want you to know who you are having a discussion with John. If you are looking to enlighten him, forget it. If you are looking to learn something from him, again, forget it. I think the umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck at birth which probably is why he does not seem to be coherent in his thought process. You really might want to consider ignoring him so he will eventually go away as most of his hateful kind do.

    • John-I’ll try to type slowly so you can better understand me. The reason I said that Florida should be bilingual was because your dear little friend Flyboy said that Puerto Rico should be bilingual. If Florida shouldn’t have to speak Spanish (yet they have a large Latino population and longer history of Spanish) then why should Puerto Ricans on the island learn English when it’s THEIR island?! Here’s my point: you people have two options: A) Either Florida gets its way but then you also have to admit PR should gets its way too and dictate what people do on the island B) Or if you say that PR should be bilingual then by YOUR logic so must all the other states that have a large Latino population because hey if you want PR to cater to its white American population then the southern states should cater to their very large Latino population. So far…you people have been going with option C) It’s not ok for PR and anyone else that doesn’t adapt to us, but it’s ok if we white Americans waltz around demanding to be catered to although we won’t return the favor. That dude, is pure hypocrisy. Tell me how it isn’t. And you and Flyboy continue to ignore my main points or even try to defend your views. All you did was claim how I’m the “hypocrite” when I’ve clearly shown YOU to be. Ha…and Flyboy who tried to argue so “eloquently” with Dee, Patriotista and Esther gave up pretty easily with me. And he has YET to defend his reasons for staying on such “anti-American” and Spanish speaking island when ironically in an earlier post he wondered why we Puerto Ricans don’t leave the USA if we’re sick of it. So…Flyboy…enlighten us, dude. Why don’t you swallow your OWN pill, hmm? You’d find a warm welcome in Texas, Virginia, and other blind and ignorant states so why stay on my beloved island that you know nothing about yet want a say in?! Maybe I should get a say on Texas legislation then, eh? Let’s ban guns!

      Now I seriously think you only skimmed through my post and didn’t read because I said that despite popular belief (again spread through the lies of white people) that many people on the isalnd DO speak Taino/Arawak! We even have a self-identified tribe called Jatibonicu! That’s like me saying just because most people can and do speak English in Lousianna, that no one speaks French! Seriously, guys. Your lack of education is astounding and just further proves why I’d never want you people to speak on behalf of MY island.

      Hahaha! “Some are legal and some are NOT” yeah well think of it THIS way: since you guys are American and not Puerto Rican, YOU’RE technically “illegal” too! Just because Puerto Ricans are Americans that doesn’t mean white Americans are Puerto Ricans and if we ever did be independent that’s EXACTLY what you’d be. ILLEGALs. The difference is that you people are taking adavtange (like always) of a present situation and still want a say. LOL…so OF COURSE you people would vote for statehood if you could. Too bad it doesn’t work that way for the Mexicans, eh? Keep proving how white people “don’t” take advatage and I’ll keep showing you the exact opposite. It doesn’t matter if they’re “illegal” or not. Like I said, technically Flyboy’s an “illegal” too since he’s not Puerto Rican and just decided to up and move (thankfully for him visas aren’t required, eh?) “Illegals” lived, worked and paid taxes so THEY should also get a say then if someone like Flyboy feels the need to add his two useless cents…

      Well…have you VISITED Russia? Do your parents own land there? Do you identify as more Russian or American? If you said, yes, yes and Russian then maybe you should get a say. BUT…are white Americans in Russia muscling in and demanding the right to vote in Russian elections merely because they LIVE there?!? I seriously doubt it. Yet that’s exactly what you and Flyboy are doing. At least I AM Puerto Rican. You and Flyboy aren’t yet you still feel the need to comment and he DARES think he gets a say in our elections. So tell me…what other countries are allowing foreigners that merely live there to vote on elections and policies?!! Tell me. Is that what’s Russia’s doing? Allowing Americans that only live there and know nothing of the culture, history, or language for that matter to get a say in THEIR business yet not to Russian Americans living in the USA?!?! LOL….I seriously doubt they let any Americans have a say at all. When did merely living somewhere and not assimilating trump being part of that culture ethnically?!?! Yeah….sorry, dude. Even THAT argument falls apart. Blood is thicker than water. I get more of a say than you people do.

      LOL…I paraphrased. How is what I said any different from what you said? I made it shorter. And that’s just it. Many of those people who “bled and died” are Puerto Ricans that 1) never got to vote for USA’s president and 2) were never understood as being ethnically different yet still labeled and treated like dirt. And those that DID try to vote for independence and fight for their country were labled as “terrorists” and were imprisoned. Some even killed. Still wonder why some of us hate the mainland?! Now back to your point. See…now I actually agree with you there. If people don’t like the USA, they should leave. I did, remember? BUT that should ALSO hold true for (yet again) your dear friend Flyboy. If he doesn’t like PR, he should leave. If an American doesn’t want to adapt to France, leave France. And so on. It’s not Americans that get to spout that out. Every other country fights for THEIR lifestyle too and deserve the right to have it. If you don’t like the PR, then leave! If Flyboy doesn’t like it, he should leave too! Why do you keep bringing up this argument to ME but not your friend? THAT was my whole point. That if you use this argument it applies to EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE. Not just Americans. Not just America. And FYI….there are many FREE socities, dude. Another indication of how arrogant and entilted you guys are. And in many ways, some places are even freer that us. Even the Middle East has had female prime ministers yet WE still have yet to have a female president! Gays are free to marry in other countries yet can’t in the States (and even the states that do allow it the Federal gov doesn’t acknowledge it). It depends on what you think is “free.” You’re not free in the States if you’re a woman (people still trying to tell you what to do with your own body). You’re not free if you’re gay (people still trying to tell you who to marry). You’re not free if you’re a minority (living like a 2nd class citizen in your own country). You’re not free if like me you’re a pagan (people trying to tell you who/what to worship). Trust me…there’s PLENTY wrong with the USA. Maybe you and Flyboy should stop criticizing MY island and take off the rosy tinted sun glasses for your OWN land.

      Flyboy-You’ve never made any attempts to defend your blatant hypocrisy and imperialsm. You claim that you get a say in MY island’s votes but would deny it to other immigrants (just because Puerto Ricans are Americans doesn’t mean Americans are Puerto Ricans…if we were to be independent, YOU’D be the illegal). You complain about Puerto Ricans badmouthing the States when many of us live there, yet then you go ahead and badmouth Puerto Rico (want us to speak English, don’t care about our history, and you haven’t assimilated) while living THERE. So why haven’t you taken your own advice and MOVE already?!?! Is it because somehow whites can trash talk whatever they want but we minorities can’t?! I’m DARING you to prove to me that you’re not a hypocrite, Flyboy. So far that’s all you’ve shown me. Plus, you fled this discussion a while ago. Why? Is it because you can’t refute my claims? Whatever. LOL…YOU’RE the hypocrite, self-entitled, imperialist that wants a say in MY island’s elections but I’M “hateful?” The only good thing about you, Flyboy, are your jokes. Keep getting funnier.

      • on October 24, 2012 at 6:12 pm GrandAmericanPatriot

        Dear PagnSun

        I believe that you are a great patriot and nationalist of the Island of Puerto Rico and who want’s what what is best for Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican people. I like you do agree with you that the Island of Puerto Rico should be given it’s freedom from the United States and is allowed to become an independent republic like its sisters in the Caribbean like Cuba and the Dominican Republic and it’s sisters in Latin America like Mexico, Guatemala, El Savlador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, Argentina and Uruguay. I hope one day that that independent Puerto Rico will join it’s sister nations in Latin America to form a Latin America just like how I believe the United States and Canada should unite to form an Anglo American Union. As an American I do not agree and have never agreed with the United States presents in Puerto Rico, I believe that it was grand mistake of the United States to attack and defeat Spain the Spanish American War (1898) and it’s later annexation of your island. The best outcome for both nations is for a future President of the United States to defy the special interest groups and corporate interest groups during his or her second term to come on the TV and declare the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico an independent nation and transforming it into the Republic of Puerto Rico. The President should then stay that he or she is ordring out all organs of government and corporate groups from the United States to vacate the island in a term of 90 days. The United States is an Anglo Saxon English speaking country and Puerto Rico is Hispanic/Latino Spanish speaking country and theorfore both countries must not be together and neither country should control the other. The English language has no buisness being an official language of Puerto Rico, the only official language that Puerto Rico should have as an official language is SPANISH, likewise the Spanish language has no buisness being allowed in the United States by having Spanish language services and having to press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish and that the official language of the United States must be ENGLISH. The people of Puerto Rico are linked to Latin America in terms of language, customs, traditions, heritage and culture and not to the United States.

        Here are terms of that both the American and Puerto Rican people must accept when the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico becomes the Republic of Puerto Rico as soon as Puerto Rico gains independence from the United States by either presidential and or congressional decree or by Puerto Rican people themselves woting for their independence in a democratically and free and fair referendum in terms of citizenship of both countries.

        1)Once Puerto Rico becomes an independent nation, the Jones-Shafroth Act that gave Puerto Ricans their United States citizenship will be abolished and Puerto Ricans living on the island or the mainland will loose their United States even if they were born in the mainland or who have lived in the mainland for decades and that would entail that Puerto Ricans living in the mainland will leave and return to the island in a period of 90 days and if they wish to still be United States citizens will have to apply for United States citizenship like any other immigrant.

        2)Once Puerto Rico becomes an independent nation, All non Puerto Ricans living in the island of Puerto Rico will not be given Puerto Rican citizenship even if they were born in the island or have lived in the island for decades and that would entail that non Puerto Ricans living in the island will leave and return to the mainland in a period of 90 days and if they wish to still be Puerto Rican citizens will have to apply for Puerto Rican citizenship like any other immigrant.

        Now Mr PaganSun since you are such a proud Puerto Rican nationalist and patriot who believes in the seperation of Puerto Rico and the United States and who wants to see the island of Puerto Rico become an independent nation to join the world community as an equal partner, I believe that you should have bravery and courage to renounce your United States citizenship and return to the island of Puerto Rico as soon ASAP. This is how to tell a true Puerto Rican nationalist and patriot by the fact that only true Puerto Rican nationalist and patriot is willing to renounce their United States citizenship and live in the island of Puerto Rico, the fake Puerto Rican nationalist and patriot is somebody who lives in the mainland United States and who refuses to renounce their United States citizenship. Dont be be a hypocrite son, you have to walk the walk like you talk the the talk.


      • Dear Green Patriot,

        Thank you. I AM a patriot of Puerto Rico. I believe the same about you for the States. Yes, I understand and can somewhat respect you for it. I agree. The States and Puerto Rico are too different. Even if we were to be a state (Gods, forbid) many, MANY people will never accept us as such.

        Sadly…I think there are many problems that are preventing PR and USA from going their separate ways. First, except for when we were Borikén under the Tainos, PR has ALWAYS been a colony…first by Spain and now by USA. This has made the people scared of going independent alone. We’ve never been before and we’re afraid of sharing the fate of our Latin American cousins (many of whom have the problems they’re having now is because some of them have within 100 years or so have gone independent). But I try so hard to tell them that if we work together and implement conscript farming (that way people won’t have to dedicate their lives to agriculture just 2-5 years) will can eventually start exporting more than we import and be self-sufficent. 2) Many PRs now identify with the State when by doing so it would only hurt their own culture in the end. 3) The States itself doesn’t quite know what it wants because even if all Prs vote statehood, the USA’s Congress still has to vote on it to let them in the Union.

        And a big problem is that the USA itslef is so strikingly divided on what it wants….in ALL things. The mentalities and cultures of the North and South are vastly different. I think one day it would be best if the south had its independence again. That way whoever wants a Republican lifestyle can go to the south and whoever wants a Democrat lifestyle can go up north. Because the way things are now…the USA’s having a series of very different presidents who place very different policies only for the next president or Congress majority to undo everything that the previous administration has done. The States can’t move forward in that way either. It’s always see-sawing. If the North and South go their separate ways, each half can decide and regulate what immigration laws to implement, what religion it wants, and what values to instill. That way the Southern States have their autonamy from the mostly northern federal governmnent and the North can implement all the regulations it wants to help its cities and poor and for a more liberal lifestyle.

        But yes, I agree. Everyone ready to move and go to another country should assimilate to that country and it’s culture and language. In the States, speak English. In PR and Latin America, speak Spanish. Those that don’t want to never should’ve moved there in the first place. And I think that once the political sphere of Latin America stabilizes and once the USA can make up its mind about its own immigration and company out sourcing laws, I think many of us Latinos would gladly go back to our home countries. (I know I would!) Things will start stabilizing once again.

        Thanks so much for saying that the USA’s invasion of PR was a mistake. Thank you for at least wanting what’s fair. I can at least respect you. And in the end we can agree that the USA and PR needs to go their seperate ways. In the end, they are both only hurting each other.

        The only things I disagree with would be the decision to revoke PRs born on the mainland of U.S. citizenship (and don’t get me wrong…I’d gladly lose mine…the only reason I’m not planning to give up my USA citizenship and be naturalized as a Spaniard is because I don’t want to lose my access to Puerto Rico which is still under USA jurisdiction…and my Taino ancestors will probably roll over in their graves…lol) only because the USA doesn’t do that for any other person born in the States of USA citizenship even if that person isn’t white or orignally from there. But if the USA does go with your first condition, then I hope it does so with ALL immigrants born in the States. That they lose their citizenship too and be naturalized. Not just Puerto Ricans. THEN I can agree with you. Ah…good. Yes, it has to apply to Americans born on the island too. But again…the USA has to make up its mind about what immigration laws to enforce.

        Hehe…I agree with you there 100%. And like I said…I SERIOUSLY considered it. LOL…I don’t live in the States anymore. I’ve lived in Spain for two years and wanted to be natuarlized as a Spaniard (my other ancestors the Tainos would probably cry but at least Spain is half my ancestor too). The ONLY reason why I haven’t yet is because unfortunately…PR is still under USA’s jurisdiction and if I give up my USA citizenship, I’ll lose my access to Puerto Rico as well…:'(

        I agree 100% that Puerto Rican nationalists (or any other person) shouldn’t spout nationalistic leanings that they’re not willing to suffer themselves. The only reason I haven’t moved to PR yet is because I’m getting a Master’s in (Greco-Roman) Ancient History and sadly…PR doesn’t have that. But once I get my Master’s I’ll move back to PR to start a farm myself and help PR with its agriculture. But don’t worry…I’m not in the States anymore so I’m not a hypocrite. Now that Flyboy guy I was talking to you about before…well…now THAT’S a hypocrite. He’s a white guy living on the island complaining about PR’s lack of English and how PR’s bash the States yet I’ve yet to see HIM buy a ticket and go back to his beloved homeland! At least I left! But now you see what I meant about how some white people do the same thing they accuse us Latinos of doing.

        In the end, I’m glad we could agree although it might be for different reasons. Thanks so much for being fair and listening. Bye Green Patriot (or Royal Cavalier) The both of us only want what’s fair. You’re entitled to YOUR lifestlye and culture and I am to MINE. And whoever wants in on either of our countries needs to adapt to them. Bye and good luck and please try to influence your friends and relatives on the mainland about how PR as a state would be a bad idea. Please, I beg you. Becuase if (heaven forbid!) the day should come when PRs vote statehood over commonwealth…it’s up to the USA’s Congress to decide yes or no to let us in the Union for the final time. And then…there’s no turning back. So influence whatever Congressmen and friends you can to vote “no” and give us our independce. On that day…I’ll glady give up my USA citizenship in exhcange for my PR one and then can return to my island to implement my farming tactics. Until then, I’ll reisde in the land of my forefathers (Spain) and live the winter months in PR (the land of my foremothers).

        I’ve regained my respect for you!!! Thanks again and good luck in all you do!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂


        On another note, can I please have a fellow Puerto Rican’s opinions or even anyone else’s opinion about my conscript farming idea? If places have conscript military why can’t we implement conscript farming? That way whoever doesn’t want to dedicate their lives to agriculture, doesn’t have to but still contribue 2-5 years to it before they rotate out with someone else. And then once we start exporting more than we import, other people will see start seeing results and hopefully join in. And I’d LOVE to be the first to sign myself for such a plan. Like Green Patriot said, we have to be able to walk the walk of our talk…and I plan to. But…how would you guys feel about this? Any opinions on conscript farming? Which I think should be implemented everywhere since it could be the soltuion to many famers leaving agriculture in many places around the world and pretty soon we’ll all have a food shortage or be force to pump in so many chemicals to grow our dwindling supply. So…any thoughts on this? Would it be a good idea? I’d be the first to try it.

      • Oooops…sorry Grand American Patriot…I just realized all this time I was calling you “Green”…LOL. Sorry, I meant no offense. I was in a hurry and skimmed through the reading. Anyway…sorry. I didn’t call you “Green” to offend. O_O

  138. You are correct Fly, this guy is Nutz.. but my last try and this is my last try to knock sense into him is
    to Vote in Peurto Rico:
    Age: Must be at least 18 years old on or before the day of the general election
    Residency: Must have an established residence in Puerto Rico
    Mental Competency: Not have been judged by a court to be mentally incompetent to register and vote
    To Vote in Russia:
    be a citizen of Russia
    be 18 years of age
    You are disqualified from voting for:
    legal incompetency
    imprisonment following criminal conviction

    To vote in the United States:
    You must be a U.S. citizen, a legal resident of a state, and 18 years old on or before election day. Also, you can’t be a felon

    Let’s Check England:
    •be aged 18 or over, but see below
    •must have one of the types of citizenship listed below
    •be living in the constituency in which you wish to vote – see below. If you’re a British citizen living overseas, see below
    •not be a person who is excluded from voting – see below.

    Ok from what i can tell only Peurto Rico so far say’s that you just have to live there to be allowed to Vote, The U.S., Russia, and England all say Citizen, so Fly can Vote there and You cannot.

    BTW, I am done with this point.

    Again, Allow PR residents to Vote for Statehood or Independance don’t give them the Stay the same option. my 2c.

    • I for one do not want the U.S. having another true blue Democratic state like Massachusetts. The New Progressive Party (sounds liberal too) party here in PRico only exist because they are also the statehood party. Remove that label and most will flee to the Democratic party sure as shit. Just one more step towards a United Socialist States of America.

      • on October 25, 2012 at 7:55 pm larroyo@ymail.com

        New Progressive party name has nothing to do with liberalism. It was once called the Republican statehood party. However, the “popular” self described democrat party had a virtual dictatorship one party rule from the very start of Commonwealth. Luis Muñoz Marih demonized the Republicans so much that they had to change their name. The “Progressive” stands for progress toward equality and statehood. The word “progressive” did not gain its negative liberal tone until the 1980’s at the latest.

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • And who remembers history? It is what people see today that really counts, and the word Progressive is strongly associated with the Democratic party in the U.S. And what I am hearing here is many people want the NPP to win the election but without Fortuno. Their complaint…is that he is making cuts in spending. Go figure, a conservative party cutting back on spending.

      • And here’s the REAL heart of the matter…what’s wrong with socialism, Flyboy? Is it wrong to ask the super rich to pay THEIR fair share if you people complain about the peanuts being given to the poor and needy? What lame excuse do the RICH have??? Are you aware that Romney’s secretary is paying more in taxes than HE is??? On what PLANET is that ok??? Are you secretly rich? Is that why this bothers you so much? Don’t you people even realize that the rich ask us to play by rules THEY don’t have to follow??? Tell me…why is that rich Italian Teresa and her family (Real Housewives of NJ) was allowed to keep her mansion and even make an ADDITION to it, throw parties, buy expensive clothes (all seen on NATIONAL TV mind you) when you people would appreantly get up in arms if a poor black or Latina wife in the slums did that???? The rest of us would LOSE OUR HOUSE!!!! Many of them did!!! Yet she got a free pass, why? Becasue she’s rich and white. Why was Donald Trump allowed to go 9 billion dollars in debt before the banks helped him (I don’t see them offering that to the poor and middle class) he managed to turn it around when the poor and middle class are thrown in jail and the streets for FAAAARR less????

        So enlighten me Flyboy what’s wrong with this picture. You’d bitch about the “mooching” poor but not the mooching rich that actually steals FAR more money from your tax dollars due to their loop holes and the system??? Your twisted form of capitalism is what’s wrong. You can look to your CEOs for the reason illegals are still allowed too. Who do you think benefits with the cheap labor they offer??? You have some serious soul searching to do, man. Again if you’re such a die hard Republican, you’re in the wrong place. Many Puerto Ricans might want statehood but we’re die hard Democrats (being that we’re the ones that suffer your corrupt CEO policies). Texas or Virgina happily awaits you. Or else don’t complain if I go to Texas one day and expect to ban guns. If I can’t change Texas, you don’t get to change MY island.

      • “Are you aware that Romney’s secretary is paying more in taxes than HE is???” PaganSun

        Simple answer for anyone who does their own taxes which I do. Romney and many rich people are not employed by companies. They make money off of their investments which are taxed at the capital gains rate of 15%. They then start deducting this investment income using legal “loop holes” and you can get the tax rate below 15%. These are the loop holes Romney wants to reform so the rich cannot use them to lower their tax rate.

        The secretary pays taxes based on her employment pay using a W-4 form submitted by the employers. Depending on her income, and I am sure it was a pretty good amount, she was required to pay taxes based on a tax rate at her level of income which started around about 20-25%. She would also have some “loop holes” to help out. But not enough to lower her tax rate all that much.

        Now why are capital gains (investments) taxes lower? To encourage people to invest in companies which in turn help companies to hire new employees and for Research and Development.

      • “Your twisted form of capitalism is what’s wrong. You can look to your CEOs for the reason illegals are still allowed too. Who do you think benefits with the cheap labor they offer???” PaganSun

        Which is why we need to tighten our borders and penalize any employers who hire illegals. Republicans are pushing for these measures but many Hispanic-Americans are yelling fowl. Both the U.S. and PRico have to get tough on illegals now.

      • Many other people aren’t employed by companies either (my parents work for the Federal government) and get taxed around 20% -25% mark too. LOl…Romney wants to reform that?! Are you sure you’re not takning about Obama? What I still don’t understand is why doesn’t someone just claim ALL incoming money as “income”? Why is the system different for those who invest than those who just have a salary? They’re STILL making money whether it’s by stocks, bonds or salaries. They should all still be taxed depending on how much money they make. There shouldn’t be one set of rules for employers and another for employees.

        So…taxes are lower for companies to help people invest and then help hire people and R &D? That”s fine and dandy except for that fact that not everyone can invest (to the extent that it would make a huge difference in their lives) and not everyone works for a company. This is one of the reasons people working for the federal governement and small businesses suffer so much. These huge companies are getting tax cuts while the teachers, firemen, policemen, public transport people, small farmers, and small business men have a different set of tax rules. The salaries for these people are laughable and there’s NO reason why they can’t be paid more or at least have the same tax advantages that the big companies have. Why not have the same kind of tax breaks for ALL jobs? Don’t they ALL help our economy and society in one form or another? It’s not just the big time companies that do all the work. Public “servants” are CONSTANTLY getting their benefits and salaries cut espcially by Republican leaders while giving the CEOs bonuses.

        Plus, I agree that we shouldn’t overspend public funds but that doesn’t mean we cut funds left and right especially when it’s going to affect the middle class more than companies. Education and helathcare are taking big hits! And we wonder why we can’t keep up with China! Education actually matters there. Don’t you see that as a ripple affect? Schools keep getting cut, less and less people want to be teachers anymore and schools are stuck with teachers who hate their jobs because they’re tired of dealing with 30 bratty kids and loss of benefits. But we keep giving prefernece to the big companies instead. The system is just plain flawed.

        But yes, I agree with you on the illegals bit. Stricter immigration laws (but also make it easier for people to do it the legal way..I heard that the legal process is a nightmare and can take years all the while these people are living, working, and even paying taxes here all the while having to wait so long to start getting a say). I think we Hispanic Democrats just want that if people ARE going to hire illegals, at least treat them fairly. No locking up people overnight like Wal Mart.

        Maybe said companies should try to help and quicken the legalization process of whoever they hire. But people shouldn’t be able to take advantage: not the illegals and not the companies.

      • “(my parents work for the Federal government) and get taxed around 20% -25% mark too.” PaganSun

        If they work for the Federal government then they are most likely filing a Foreign Tax Income form 1116. This is basically how it works.

        Say your parents are required to pay the Federal government (IRS) $4,000 and Puerto Rico’s Hacienda $3,000. What you will pay to the IRS is $1,000 and Hacienda will get $3,000.

        Your parents will never pay more than the highest taxes computed.

        Now, if they owe the the IRS $3,000 and Hacienda $4,000, they would then pay $0 to the Federal government and Hacienda would get $4,000.

        Does that make sense?

      • Ummm…..yes? O__O

        LOL…just kidding. I think I do understand. But…quick question Puerto Rico’s Hacienda is for those who live in Puerto Rico, right? My parents don’t live there. They live in NJ. So I guess our taxes are different.

    • LOL…how am I “nuts?”

      I see you put in the voting requirements of some countries. GOOD.

      Now you see the hypocrisy of your point? Oh wait maybe you don’t…let me spell it out AGAIN. Notice how all those countries say CITIZEN. Last I checked, Puerto Ricans were Americans but that doesn’t make Americans Puerto Ricans. But now I guess I know where our statehood majority is coming from if mere non Puerto Rican residents like Flyboy are allowed to vote in PR elections. He’s an AMERICAN citizen but he’s not a Puerto Rican. Only Puerto Ricans (preferably the ones that live on the island) should be allowed to vote. Not white residents. No wonder our elections are being influenced. Now explain to me how THAT is fair.

      • “Residency: Must have an established residence in Puerto Rico”

        Where does it say must be a citizen? It doesn’t. I’ve established a residence here in PRico. I am a registered voter here in PRico.

        Elections being influenced by white people? What, you think all white American people want PRico to become a state? Read my previous posts, I do not want PRico to become a state. I’d rather see it become a Free Association or Independent. Puerto Rico would become a Democratic true blue state voting only for Democratic presidents. I will not allow that to happen. So we may have different reasons for why we want to stop the direct ties with the U.S. but the end game remains the same.

      • Sigh. That was my whole point. It DOESN’T say you have to be a “citizen” of Puerto Rico. I was talking about the OTHER countries. Basically, because of PR’s looser voting laws, you play by a different set of rules than what the illegals are playing. And as John so cruelly pointed out, there’s no real such thing as a Puerto Rican citizen because we’re STILL under the stupid USA. So you see how things are different? If there WAS a such thing as a Puerto Rican citizen you wouldn’t be allowed to vote in PR elections because then only PR citizens would be able to. But people on the island can take advantage of this unfair system and vote in OUR elections and influence us without being PR citizens (since like we said we don’t have PR citizens) while our “illegal” Latino cousins can’t get a say in what’s happening to them. The only thing that’s saving you from being labelled “illegal” is that very fact there aren’t Puerto Rican citizens. That’s why I’m angry. You guys are calling out the illegals when the system is different for us Puerto Ricans and for you that get to live on the island and take advantage.

        I’m sure that many other whites who live on the island want it to be a state. Wait a minute…I heard from some people that Free Association was unconstitutional and isn’t really an option. LOL…*shakes head sadly* If it becomes a state I hope they DO become Democratic. Your Republican party isn’t helping us minorities. And there wouldn’t be much you can do if goes Democratic, much like there’s not much I can do to influence Texas or Virginia. And um…out of curiosity, if you really are so Republican…why live there? Why? I’m asking with no rancor this time. Don’t you think you’ll be happier in Texas? Is it because of your Puerto Rican wife? I just wanna know why you want to change my island. Why not go live your life where people are more like-minded as you? Why?

      • “I heard from some people that Free Association was unconstitutional and isn’t really an option.” PaganSun

        No, the Enhanced Commonwealth was determined unconstitutional. These are two very different forms of statuses.

      • Ahhhhh…I see. Ok, then. I’ll have to look up what exactly this Free Association thing entails.

        Well…I wish desperately I could vote on these things, but it’s gonna take more than us to change my fellow Puerto Ricans’ mind how statehood isn’t the best for us. I guess what you said is true then, at least we want the same end and at least there’s someone in PR who can vote in favor for those things. Alright then, truce. We can’t agree on other things but at least we agree on what matters. Hmmm…I might’ve pegged you wrong.

        BTW…how do you feel about conscript farming like other places have conscript military? There must be some way we can build up our agriculture without people dedicating their lives to it if they don’t want to. After 2-4 years of people putting in their share, they can rotate out but at least we can start exporting more than we import and start being self sufficient. Sad news is that eventually no one’s gnna want to go into agriculture anymore (in the States I heard that people in agriculture makeare 10% of the population but produce 40% of the world’s food! No wonder why we started using chemicals to make the food bigger!) I would gladly be the first to sign myslef up! I’m planning on going into agriculture anyway but I have to get my Master’s first. Until then, I’ll probably try WOOFing to see if I could handle that life. I’ve already seen some of it due to my grandparents. But tell me…do you think it’s a good idea? If PR ‘s gonna be independent or even better itself we have to have a plan.

  139. You are correct Larroyo, for in the 15th Century Democratic, Repubilican, Progressive all had different meaning, I am glad you pointed that out.

  140. “Basically, because of PR’s looser voting laws, you play by a different set of rules than what the illegals are playing.” PaganSun

    You are talking about something that is bigger than you or I or anyone else. The only way you can change this law is either by working with the political system and change this law…

    Or if you feel real frisky you can form your own little army and fight your way to independence the way Castro did in Cuba.

    But blaming all white Americans living in Puerto Rico for the problems here is ridiculous. I really hope you can see that to be true. Not all white Americans want PRico to be a state! You’d be surprise at how many white Americans would like to see PRico become Independent. But even most PRicans keep voting for either Commonwealth status or Statehood. Only about 4% vote for Independence. Your anger is clearly directed at the wrong people.

    • Ok, ok. I see your point. But why can’t you see that you’re talking about something bigger than us too? The immigration laws for illegals is something that will always be see-sawing in the States. Sometimes they’ll favor stricter laws, sometimes they won’t. But I see many white people blaming ALL Latinos for the problems only the illegals (and those who hire them) create.

      And trust me..I’m trying. LOL…”if you feel frisky” Funny you should say that. I always joked with my parents that the very reason I couldn’t go into politics was becasue I’d either be a dictator and kill or exile everyone who didn’t agree with me or would one day BE asassinated myself. I can see that they might’ve been right. Oh and yes…I feel anger at my own people too. I wanna shake them a say, “Wake up! You fools!” That’s one of the few problems with democracy though. Everyone has the right to vote but few people are so far sighted as to what their votes would mean…

      Very well. At least I know that PR is at least in somewhat capable hands (take it as a compliment…lol) and won’t force us to completely be another hand of the USA. Fine. Truce. Enjoy my island and say hi to the coquís for me…:)

    • on October 26, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Reply larroyo@ymail.com

      What’s really the percentage of non hispanic whites in Puerto Rico? I keep reading on the census that 79% self Id as white, Spaniard Origin./ yet 98% of residents are Hispanic. That means 2% ? Seems too small a number.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

  141. “Romney wants to reform that?!” PaganSun

    Yes. Obama is just talking about raising taxes on people making more than $250,000. Problem is, you ran raise the rates all day long but if you don’t close the loop holes the rich will still use legal deductions to bring down the rate they are tax at. I’m guessing Obama is betting most people don’t understand the difference. I’m listening to many of the news medias and even those people don’t seem to understand it.

    “But I see many white people blaming ALL Latinos for the problems only the illegals (and those who hire them) create.” PaganSun

    Yes, but many Latino-Americans are in favor of giving amnesty to those illegals in the U.S. which is what makes so many white people angry. Say you and your girlfriend have been patiently waiting in line at a movie theater for a ticket when someone jumps in front of you. What would you say? This is the case with so many legal immigrants who are waiting in line after filing all the required documents. I wish someone would find these good law abiding folks and ask them how they feel about the illegals who jumped in front of them? I’m sure they too are against amnesty for those already in the U.S. illegally. It means they have to wait longer.

    Of course the immigration issue gets more complex when you are talking about the kids who were born in the U.S. Maybe we need to change the Constitution that permits children born in the U.S. to be citizens. This would discourage pregnant mothers from entering into the states illegally just to have their baby born in the U.S.

    Their is no doubt that life can be so cruel, but sometimes it is what it is. Truce to you as well PaganSun.

    • Obama wants raise taxes AND close the rich’s loopholes, too. The problem with Romney (despite many, many other things…lol) is that even if HE closes the tax loopholes that’s not really going to help everyone else that’s not under some company. Education and healthcare are still getting cut. Now, I get that we should try to close our federal defecit but not at the expense of the departments we need most. What are his plans for the teachers, public workers, students, elderly, small business owners and other self employed folks? (Rhetorical…you don’t have to answer this since I know our political views are vastly different and I don’t want to start another “war” with you or anything but I’m just trying to get you to understand my point of view too) I just think that the Republican party is too exlcusive. Now don’t me wrong like I said…we really do need to moderate our federal spending but it should be across the board. Also, it’s hard to run a society if you don’t put any money into it but expect money to come out. It’s all about moderation.

      Well, that kind of goes both ways, too. Many people see most anti-illegal immigrants as racist and when they do stuff like protesting illegal immigrants complete with medical masks and air spray as if Latinos were “dirty” (I saw that on TV. Was that really necessary?), it only further proves that idea. I think in the end, there are assumptions on BOTH sides and that leaves to the vicious cycle. I understand your point. I do. It’s not fair for those who do it the legal way, but like I said some people go too far with their anger and hate for illegals (the masks and air spray), leaving it to take on a very ugly form thus angering other Latino-Americans who many white Americans automatically lump with the illegals (When my grandpa got a fractured hip due to a car accident that my pregnant mom and I were also involved in, he had to spend hours in pain because the staff thought he was an illegal Mexican and just gave him paperwork that he couldn’t read since it was in English! This was in Newark…so sadly it DOES happen…) forcing us to band together. But yes…in the end, there must be some sort of immigration reform. I just wish people didn’t have to be so nasty in their protest of it though.

      Yes, I agree with you too on the baby issue. The system shouldn’t be abused like that. But life is crueler for some than others, Flyboy…and sadly we Latinos fall into the shallower end of the dream pool most times…and THAT’S what I hope to fix one day.

      • Yes, we can certainly debate all day long what we think should be done in the US to fix ALL of the problems. But where do we start?

        In a nut shell as to why I would vote for Romney if I could. His shear enthusiasm and the thrill he gets from negotiating. This is the very quality that is lacking in Obama. Does Obama have good ideas? Probably. But without conviction to get the job done no matter how long it takes, all the good ideas are mute. It is a known fact that Obama prefers to be home with his wife and daughters. He has said he feels guilty when he is not with them. This stems from his own empty relation with his father who left the family when he was young. What the country needs now is someone who will work long hours and hammering away at getting something done. I believe this is what Romney would be better at. His kids are grown up and out of the house so no distractions. That is the most significant reason why I would vote for Romney if I could. I gave up my right to vote in the US by registering to vote here.

        I think what we tend to forget is just how many people live in the US. Well over 300 million. And yes, mostly white people. It is an Anglo-Saxon country. So when we see a group of jackasses protesting we tend to think it is the entire population that is on TV. But it is usually just a very small number. The media tends to over exaggerate for ratings or political purposes. We should be careful not to jump to conclusions. Remember, Obama was elected because many white Americans voted for him. And most of those who didn’t, did so because they disagree with the Democrat platform, and not because of racial views.

        I’m sorry to hear that happened to your father.

      • True.

        Ehhhh…that’s not a great reason. He makes a great business man but what most people forget is that running a country isn’t the exact same as running a business. It affects far more people in all sorts of walks of life. Cutting funding for schools isn’t like cutting funds for the H & R department…it has a huge ripple affect that’s hard to control. Plus, Romney might not have a family but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a life outside politics either. I hear he loves his golf. And Obama got a LOT done compared with other presidents. I think his flaws were that he was trying to be bi-partisan and make everyone happy when of course we know he can’t. But…you’re right. We shouldn’t get into this. Oh, really? I didn’t know you gave up voting for the USA when you registered to vote there. I guess that makes things a bit more fair.

        Well…I’m not really forgetting that. Sad truth this that there are MANY racists and fools that act like that. In my heart I don’t think they’re the majority, but they’re certainly quite a few of them. Protests can get ugly on all sides, but the fact remains is that when people see that, it just reinforces our mentalities. LOL…Obama won because many Americans voted for him, not just whites. Ehhhh…again, there were those that held up signs saying “Black Nigga should be killed along with his two stupid kids!” There is no reason for this (and I don’t buy Arroyo’s theory about how Democrat’s dressed up and pretended to be Republicans or some crap). We deal with racism all the times, sadly. We KNOW there are many people like that. And sadly, many people don’t like the fact Obama is black. Just look at why they asked him to release his birth certificate! No OTHER president had to. Why is that? It’s sad and simple racism. I agree that the majority of whites aren’t like that and I hope you agree that the majority of Latinos aren’t racist either.

        Thank you. It was my grandpa, but thank you. In times like those I try to think of the good white people I know and their friendship and I try to beat the anger in me. Sometimes it’s hard though because in the end….whites will never really know what blacks and Latinos have to deal with…:(

  142. “how do you feel about conscript farming like other places have conscript military?” PaganSun

    As in the draft?! You do have dictator tendencies don’t you. If I could recommend something for you, after getting your Masters, travel to Venezuela and see how they are doing things there agriculture wise. I don’t know if they are forcing people to work the farms but they are certainly investing heavily in agriculture. Latin America would be a better place for farming than PRico. And it is a fast growing economy with lot’s of opportunities.

    • Yes, something like that.

      LOL Yeah…I do. I guess that’s why I can never run for office…:( But I’m looking to try to solve the major problem that even a few fellow Puerto Ricans pointed out…no one wants to work in agriculture anymore. And not just in Latin America but everywhere. Even the States agricultural farmers only make up 10% of the national population but produce 40% of the world’s food! (the Bread Basket). People just don’t want to farm the land anymore. But instead of making people dedicate their lives to agriculutre maybe everyone should just put in 2-4 years before rotating out for another group to take their turn. That way people can still eventually have the careers they want but fix our agricultural problem too. It’s also part of the reason why there so fewer small farms compared to the big factories. We need to make up for the loss in numbers and that’s also why they mass produce and pump up the foods. So it’ll be enough to go around.

      But I don’t want to live in another Latin American country. I want to live in Puerto Rico…or Spain (where I am now). And we need to build up our agriculture. My dad said PR produces the nation’s largest pineapple and the juiciest pineapple and also the best café. But of course the USA (understandably) pushes Hawaii’s products more. If PR is going to be self sufficent, we have to change that and build up OUR agriculture and economy.

      • I only recommend Venezuela, if only for a short time, so you can see how effective Socialism is first hand at the same time you can get real hands on experience working with farmers using mostly natural farming methods.

        I know there is lot’s of competition with the coffee growers. I hear Starbucks buys coffee beans from here. As for pineapples, I only see them being sold on the side of the road. PRico is becoming overly metropolis and much of island in the center is somewhat mountainous. You might be able to start a small business here, but not sure about transforming PRico into a huge agriculture country again. I think those days are pretty much gone due to so much outside competition throughout the world. It’s the wages here that will kill your opportunity.

      • Hmmm…good idea. But I wonder if getting legal documentation would be a problem, especially since I don’t imagine the USA and Venezuela to be on good terms right now. : / But seeing how a socialist scoiety works is a great idea! Too bad the Socialist party in Spain lost the very year I came here…*raises middle finger to the heavens*

        Ooooh Starbucks buys coffee from PR? Awesome…well we always did have one of the best cafés.

        PR is becoming “metropolis”? That’s sad to hear. Now, I get that many people want their own careers and I want the people to be happy. But if the PR population continues to rise, we’ll have to expand into the countryside and that’s what I DON’T want. I don’t quite intend to make PR a full-blown agricultural society but I don’t want it to be an island city either. We have beautiful landscapes, trees, and countryside and I don’t want to see the agricultural lifestyle die. Especially if we’re going to be competetive in the global world. SOME people should start going back to agriculture on the island but many don’t want to. Thus why we need some form of conscription that way people don’t have to dedicate their lives to it, but it would be enough to build our agriculture back up and protect that lifestyle and the countryside where I visit so often with my grandparents. Hmmm…well sadly, PR gets paid less than in the States in regular jobs so of course that means it’s EVEN less for agriculture. But that’s why we should vote independent.

        I just want to fix the forseeable problem that pretty soon everyone’s population will boom and be forced to expand into the countryside thus killling it and turning it into more cities and that also due to the fact fewer and fewer people internationally want to go into agriculture, we’ll be having a food shortage. If no one wants to dedicate their lives to it, that’s fine, but everyone should put in at least SOME years only to protect our food supply and protect the natural world. I’ll even be the first!

  143. “Is it because of your Puerto Rican wife?” PaganSun


    “Why not go live your life where people are more like-minded as you? Why?”

    And then what would I learn from people of a like mind?

    I’m just curious, but can I ask how old you are? And are you a woman or a man?

    • Oh, it’s because of your wife. Ah. Ok. Fair enough.

      Touché. (This is all before we called truce BTW). And I truly hope you are there to learn. Sadly…many aren’t and go there only to buy property, take advantage of our year round great weather (except for raining seasons and hurricanes lol) and by not paying Federal taxes, and still expect it to be the States instead of trying to assimilate or learn from the culture. Example: I’m in Spain now and have been for two years. It doesn’t change the fact that I’m Puerto Rican and always will be, but I’m adapting to the Spaniard lifestyle. I’m getting used to the fact that shops open at 9am and close at 2pm for their lunch which is their biggest meal of the day before reopening at 5:30pm and closing at 8pm or 9pm). I’m getting used to the fact that there aren’t a whole lot of fast food joints (I’m in a village not a big city like Madrid) so I have to cook alot. I’m getting used to the fact that all the channels are in Spanish (lol…not a big culture shock for me). See, I’m getting used to all these things. I’m adapting. I’m not necessarily losing my Puerto Rican-ness but I’m not trying to fight their lifestyle either. I’m not standing outside the shops saying “You should only get an hour break at 12pm for lunch and then stay open until 10pm!” (Oh and I’m not saying that YOU do this…I’m just saying some OTHER white people are known to do this in other countries) Anyway…that’s all I mean by “assimilate.” Not that people that go to PR have to lose their culture. But they have to adapt to the different lifestyle and language there. Just like many believe immigrants should do in the States.

      LOL…well…I’m a 26 year old woman. What about you?

      • I’m 56. And I really am an aviator. My wife keeps telling me my username is looked at by some here as being gay. Well, I’m not.

        My father put 30 years in the military. He was still in the military when I graduated from a school in Pusan, Korea. I joined the military and spent another 20 years traveling, so I am used to assimilating into different cultures. It keeps life interesting. I just hope you understand how Puerto Rico is different in a sense that it is becoming more Americanized just because so many PRicans families have extended families throughout the U.S. and when they come to visit, they are probably the worst critics when it comes to their natural home here in PRico. They see things here that makes them very sad. And I don’t want to be overly critical here, but even my wife and her family see how the island is changing, and not for the good. Your peaceful island is looking more like New York City. And trust me, I lived in NYC for several years. It’s the influence of the young people. I only wish it was a very peaceful and quiet island. Oh well. Is it quiet in the small town you live in?

      • Oh! You know…I never even thought that you were a real aviator or even thatit sounded “gay”. (It doesn’t.) I thought you were my age and just wanted a hip sounding name. LOL…I knew you weren’t gay when you mentioned having a wife.

        Well…I…um…I…Ok, ok. I’m an Auxiliar for conversación. Basically, I help the teachers teach English. *glares* I see you laughing at my supposed hypocrisy! LOL…But in all seriousness, I was a bit surprised by how willing many people here are to learn English. Also, that was one of the reasons I was so angry at people who back in the States don’t really want to learn Spanish. They see nothing wrong with being bilingual here. Last year I was in Pontevedra, Galicia. This year, I’m in Alcalá de los Gazules in Cádiz, Andalucía.

        Well, my mom is VERY much into helping the military since her dad was a para-trooper in the Air Forces (also where my brother’s seeking to go).

        Oh…good! I’m glad you can assimilate yet not lose your culture. And I’m glad that I was wrong about you wanting to change us all into Americans (Yes, I like being wrong sometimes…it restores my faith in humanity).

        😥 … Sigh…I can’t really express how badly I want that to be false. But I know it’s true. It’s one of the reasons my dad dissuaded me from moving to PR…But that’s why I want to us to at least in part go back to agriculture. It doesn’t have to be a booming industry…but just enough to protect the way of life and build up our eonomy. I don’t want PR to be some island city. No no no no! I love the hills, the flamboyan trees, El Yunque, the coquís, the cows, and rice and coffee plantations!!! Someone needs to start spanking those young people very soon. *grabs paddle with evil smile* BTW…do you lie in San Juan or where? When I go to PR, I usually visit my grandparents in Guayanilla, a little town next to Yauco near Ponce and Mayaguez that’s still (the Gods be praised!) mostly agricultural. I’m grateful I don’t have to deal with city life when I’m in PR. I love the countryside. Then again…that kinda comes with being a pagan..lol.

        The small town I am now? Yes. Alcalá de los Gazules is a very small town. And the buses only leave once in the morning and once in the evening usually so it’s kind of hard to travel (being that the taxis are literally 10x more expensive) but there are cows, bulls and horses literally just outside the town. And the hills look just like Puerto Rico’s only drier and bit more cliff looking which only makes me miss my island more… 😦 I love the slower pace of life than the States. People stay in the coffee shops and restaurants almost all day and just talk to each other. Sometimes when I visit different sites, I can’t help but wonder if I’m walking where my ancestors once walked. But…my little island still calls to me…even here. And it’s getting harder and harder to not listen to it. I think I’ll be spending Winter Break over there. Look for me in Guayanilla…;)

      • “I love the slower pace of life than the States. People stay in the coffee shops and restaurants almost all day and just talk to each other.” TPS

        The U.S. is a huge continent with a vast variety of culture. If you are looking for a “Mayberry, USA” small town where people sit in coffee shops and discuss the weather and gossip then trust me you can find plenty. How much of the U.S have you ventured through? I just hope you are not giving a false impression of the U.S. to the people of Spain. Remember, you are acting as an unofficial ambassador to the U.S. What you say will have a lasting impression on the Spaniards you talk to. Having said that…

        We hear a lot of news hear regarding Spain’s high unemployment and dire economy. Do you talk to many people about their concerns? Probably in the country where you are most families are more self-sufficient having farms and all. But what about the city folks? I’m reading where quite a few college grads are getting very angry and frustrated and worry about their future? Are people as concerned as the media is portraying?

      • That might be true, I visited plenty states to know that it STILL isn’t the same as Europe. American and European lifestyles are pretty different. It’s not just the “coffee shops” and “gossip.” It’s almost an entirely different manner of living and thinking. Even in the slower parts of the country, the USA is still mostly about work, business, and capitalism. Plus, the “slower pace of life” mostly applies to the more rural south and midwest which…I don’t particularly care for the mentalities there. I prefer Europe…well, specifically Spain. But whatever. Every country has its pros and cons I guess. And every country has its problems. But there are problems I can deal with, and problems I can’t. Personally, Spain has less problems I can’t deal with.

        As for the ambassador thing…ehhhh. My program isn’t EXACTLY an ambassador exchange thing, especially since I don’t intend to return to the States for long. Just for the summer to be with my family. And when they ask me, I mostly tell them the truth through my experiences. Pros and cons, like I said. There’s nothing “false” about what I say and I try to paint a fair picture. Positive AND negative. Don’t look to me as a “real” ambassador though. I just do my job and try to teach them English and answer whatever questions they have about it. No more, no less. I try to leave USA matters other than that out of it but if we do talk politics, I act as I see things and not in the USA’s interests. I’m sure you already know by now that I have my reasons for being less than thrilled with the mainland….And I’ll leave it at that.

        Yes…most of it is true. But I think, like you said, the harsh reality of it is seen more in the cities like Madrid and Barcelona where many people go on strikes and walk in protests. And of course that’s also where you see more homeless people, more closed stores, etc. Since I’m in a village now, I don’t really see that anymore except on TV. I didn’t see it too much in Pontevedra either except for a few protests. I think most people who didn’t have a job have gone to Germany or other European countries. President Rajoy has also encouraged people to seek work in Morocco since they actually have a surplus of jobs now. People are mostly upset at the unemployment and the governemnt cuts. Thankfully at least, it’s not as bad as in Greece….poor Greece. What about the States? Is there still an unemployment problem over there? Last I heard, it was at 7%. Are things getting better?

  144. “As for the ambassador thing…ehhhh. My program isn’t EXACTLY an ambassador exchange thing” TPS

    Not in any official capacity of course. You do represent American values and that is how you will be judged anywhere you go. That is what they would tell us military types whenever we transferred to a foreign country.

    I was in Barcelona in 1969 with my family. I remember listening to the Jackson 5 and “ABC it’s easy as 123” on the Armed Forces Radio Network. Great time. I think I was 14 than.

    As for the economy here, yes, it’s sluggish. They tell us it’s getting better but when 23 million people are out of work you got to wonder. The US is 16 trillion dollars in debt. I can’t even fathom that number. We are borrowing and printing money every single day to pay the bills. How long can we continue to spend before we collapse economically the way the Soviet Union did in 1991.Truthfully, I am really worried because the US is funds the IMF so other countries such as Greece and Spain can get cheap loans to them pay their bills. So we borrow money from China and print it and then give it to the IMF. Does that make sense to you? The world economy is really nothing more than than a big bubble that will pop one day and then where will we all be then? If you’re going to get your community farm going I suggest you don’t wait to long.

    • LOL…well, I think the USA military is a tad different than an auxiliar program…hehehe. Of course it’s expected that the USA military represent American values, but…me personally? Not much. Though like I said…I always try to be fair. There were many things I loved about the States, but in the end. It’s not for me. Plus, I think the when the Spaniards see me they see a Puerto Rican that just so happened to be born and raised in the States. It’s always funny when they’re like, “Where are you from?” and I said, “The USA.” And they’re like…”Well..where are you from originally?” And I’m like, “Puerto Rico.” And they’re like, “Oooooohhh. I see.” Hilarious. Now, I just automatically tell them I’m Puerto Rican but live in the States. I think even to them I’m more Puerto Rican than American.

      My dad also loves listening to Motown and Jackson 5 when he’s not listening to salsa and merengue. 😉

      Awww…still bad, huh? Well, I just home whoever wins the election is able to turn it around. In the end, that’s what matters most. Yeah…I get it. Everyone’s always trading and borrowing money from each other. The system needs to be fixed soon. That “invisible hand” can only do so much. But yes…I think eventually I’ll have a farm and maybe even be a novelist.

  145. my man, for you information… PR is not an expense for USA, PR is an Asset (as colony or commonwealth like u all says)…. do a research about what PR can do and cant, just because USA tells PR gov. what they should do (with laws).

    How many millions USA sent us?…. now compare that amount with the amount which goes from PR to the USA…. i will give u an example:

    The only factories that can operate in PR are: USA factories and PR ones, all that factory earnings goes to USA, plus those factories pay taxes for those earnings to USA gov. how many USA factories are in PR and how much do they pay on Taxes on the USA?

    Walmart from the city of ponce, is the one with most sales every year (more than every single walmart in the USA states), and they are paying taxes in PR? No, they pay taxes to the USA gov.

    if u do some research and some math u can see that the USA is getting more money than the amount of money that they sent to PR.

    another example: some years ago in PR was operating a Hanes factory,
    products made by puertoricans, (if u see ur undewear package u can read “Made in USA”), after puertorican finish the product, the factory sent them to USA then Stores is PR could buy them…. With item cost, export cost, import cost, taxes, and store gaining…. The export and import using most be by USA “boats” the most expensive ones in the world… (they pay taxes in usa too).

    i understand USA do not want PR to be state,just because they are getting alot of money with us.

    • I completely agree! There have been many white Americans that wrongly complain of what a “burden” PR is to the States but never stop to think how much money THEY are making off US!!!! That’s why I always try to put those people in their place when theytry to talk smack!

      • Yes it is 8% according to the government stats. But that only takes into account those folks who are looking for work. Many people of just given up and are now living off their savings. So really it is much higher. But the folks who are having a tough time finding jobs are those who were laid off from manufacturing, retail stores, teachers, etc. Employers cannot get enough qualified candidates in the engineering fields, computer sciences, research scientists and many other technical fields. Many of the these positions are filled by foreigners due to the failure of the U.S. education system. The U.S. is falling behind the technology race. And as I mentioned, you have to be willing to travel far beyond ones own backyard.

      • Yeah I can well imagine that it’d be higher than 8% in reality. Well, like I said…it’s also all about qualifications, availability, and even desire. There might be jobs available in the USA and even PR but people looking for jobs might not be qualified enough, there might be too many people competing for the same jobs, or people simply might not to do te jobs that are available (Public jobs never made much money but now many benefits and salaries are being cut so even if openings for teachers are available, who would want to?). Same for PR. I’m sure there are quite a few hotel, tourism, environmental, teaching, and even agriculture jobs available that people either aren’t qualified for or just don’t want to do. And many people must remember that “agriculture” doesn’t always mean you have to be the one actually on the farm. There are jobs in food engineering, topography, manufacturing, and food sciences all related to agriculture.

        Ah, the USA education system. Yet another reason in proving my point why the USA needs to get over its obsession with English (at least where it concerns PR) when technically and federally, it has no official language. It doesn’t make American odds look good when foreigners can come in, speak English and many times other languages, and are better able to get American jobs while Americans can mostly only speak English and lose out on their OWN jobs because they were not bilingual. Many more jobs now actually seek muti-lingual people and with good reason especially if many American jobs are being sent for better or worse abroad. But yeah…I see your points.

        Anyway….WHOOOOO OBAMA!!!! LOL..;)

        Speaking of which, how was the election in PR? What were the results and what happens now? I read that 60% wanted statehood…:'( Is this true? Either way…I just hope my island knows what it’s getting into. It wants statehood for all the wrong reason and I just SEE the day that it will regret its decision except it might be too late by then…:(

    • Let’s just cut to the chase. If PRico was such a money maker for U.S. corporations, especially the manufacturing industry, then why have these companies not flocked to PRico making PRico a hot sought after destination for jobs? Fact is, it has been quite the opposite. People are leaving PRico, especially the well educated bilingual PRicans, seeking jobs in the U.S. PRico’s has had much higher unemployment, 11+%, for many years now. So where are the facts in your own assumptions TheRealOne?

      • on November 5, 2012 at 9:38 am larroyo@ymail.com

        Simple, the lack of security for their investments in a territory where there its undetermined status is no garantee of permanent union & economic integration with the CONUS.

        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • Thanks Arroyo. At least there’s something we can agree on. And Flyboy, besides what Arroyo pointed out, I can’t believe that you forget just how overpopulated the island is even now. Believe me, I wanted to move there but my dad and his friends dissuaded me precisely BECAUSE of the overpopulation (more than 3 million for an island only 3 times bigger than Rhode Island which is also why there’s a lack of jobs…too many people, too few jobs) AND the political corruption which is ALSO a very big reason why the island’s so broke: embezzlement. And 11% is just 4% higher than in the USA which last I heard was at 8% so…it doesn’t seem like things are so great in the States either. A better question to ask then is this: If the USA is spending oh so much money on PR…where is it? Are they building more jobs, more houses, etc? I SERIOUSY doubt the USA is churning enough money into PR to make any difference. : /

      • “I can’t believe that you forget just how overpopulated the island is even now.” TPS

        Yes, with the majority of the people who aren’t bilingual. The PRican elites are sending their kids to good bilingual schools so they can find good jobs in the U.S. when all else fails here. You really should come here an live for a good period of time so you can get a better understanding as to what is happening here. The owner of this web site is from PRico but educated at Harvard University and living and working in Boston, Mass. You really are not helping PRico by living in Spain.

      • “A better question to ask then is this: If the USA is spending oh so much money on PR…where is it?” TPS

        You will have to ask the government of Puerto Rico. Since the 1950’s PRico has been electing governors from PRico. What the government of PRico does with the billions they get annually from U.S. taxpayers is completely up to them. I’m sure there is a web site that shows where this money is spent.

      • Again…with a population of over 3 million and not enough jobs, I can well imagine those who can afford it it and those who are bilingual are seeking jobs in the USA (not that they’ll find many there either though). And lol…as always only the rich can afford USA schools and universities. And I plan to. But then again, that argument that those who don’t live there don’t quite know what it’s like is getting a bit old. That’s a bit like saying any Americans living abroad shouldn’t vote in any American elections just because they might not have lived in the USA recently. Is anyone saying that? Then why should it be any different for PRs living abroad? I might not have lived there per se, but I’ve been there almost EVERY summer for 1-2 months. And I’ve been to other places on the island other than San Juan which many people living in San Juan or the other major cities can’t even say that. But trust me…I REALLY do want to and probably will end up living there at least for a few years. Right now though I have to finish this auxiliar program and then get my Master’s in Ancient History (which PR universities sadly don’t have). But just because I live abroad doesn’t mean I don’t know what’s going on. Like I said I’ve been there MANY times and my dad lived there and goes there for a month or two almost every year for work and he keeps me very well informed. Plus, why did you bring up the website owner’s residence? He’s from there but is not living there now, but are you saying that because he’s educated from Harvard his opinion weighs more? Just to be clear, I’m not attacking or anything, I’m just trying to see your point. “Your living in Spain isn’t helping PR” Ok…but then. Are you living in PR for PR’s benefit…or the USA’s? You once said that you don’t want PR to be a state because you don’t want the USA to potentially have another democrat state. That sounds a bit like you’re there for the USA’s benefit then, not PR’s and people should vote for PR’s benefit.

        Yes, I guess you’re right. That’s something that should be looked into. But more by the ones that claim that PR is “draining” the USA because I don’t see that at all. If anything ISRAEL is draining the USA…

      • “He’s from there but is not living there now, but are you saying that because he’s educated from Harvard his opinion weighs more?” TPS

        No! I mentioned him because he helps to prove my point that the PRican elites are schooling their children in bilingual schools which give them better opportunities to advance rather than be limited here in PRico.

        “seeking jobs in the USA (not that they’ll find many there either though).” TPS

        Jobs are certainly available in the U.S. They are just more technical in nature now as we move into the 21st century. And you have to be willing to relocate.

        “Are you living in PR for PR’s benefit…or the USA’s? You once said that you don’t want PR to be a state because you don’t want the USA to potentially have another democrat state. That sounds a bit like you’re there for the USA’s benefit then” TPS

        As I guess you could say that. I consider myself a Republican fiscally. Smaller government, lower taxes and more power to the individual states. Socially I am more moderate.

      • Oh, ok. I see. Well, I didn’t doubt THAT part of your argument (that people on the island who can afford it and are bilingual are sending their kids to the USA). After all, my dad himself moved back to the USA after living most his life on the island. But then again you’re forgetting that the USA is MANY times bigger than PR so of course it’s gonna be a bit easier to find a job on the mainland only because there are about 50 states to choose from whereas PR is “limited” a lot by its small size. But before I went back to Spain, I spent the summer in NJ and…finding a job is STILL not easy in the States. I was having a hard time finding one myself which was part of the reason why I chose to do this program. And jobs aren’t so “certainly available” or else we wouldn’t have a 8% unemployment rate. Are some available? Sure. Some jobs are available in PR as well including: hotel and tourism, teaching, and agriculture. I doubt very much that there are zero posts to be filled in PR. I was actually looking for a job two years ago in PR (I almost settled for teaching at a school in Fort Buchanan) before deciding to go to Spain and I found a few posts but not many that I was qualified for (that’s another deciding factor for both the USA and PR…even if there are jobs avialable, one might not be qualified).

        Ah, I see. Well, fair enough I suppose. Fiscally I’m a socialist through and through (as if you didn’t know…lol) Everyone puts in a little for the government and everyone can reap the rewards so that at least the two most important things in society (healthcare and education) are affordable for everyone, but since the USA apparently has something against socialism, I’m socially more Democrat and tend to vote as such.


        Here’s something to make you chuckle…For a while i was wondering why you were putting TPS in your comments. Later…I realized it was a shortening of my name…womp womp. 😉

  146. Whoops. I guess the author of this is feeling a bit ridiculous now.

    • LOL…not really. His point was that although many people in PR might WANT to be a US state (for entirely the wrong reasons might I add!) but that doesn’t mean that legislation of the USA’s side will see it through. It’s gonna take billions that the USA doesn’t have right now to make PR a state let alone the gruelling question of English vs Spanish so…it’s not as simple as checking a circle on a ballot…and the sooner people realize this situation, the better! : /

  147. “American elections just because they might not have lived in the USA recently. Is anyone saying that? Then why should it be any different for PRs living abroad?”
    The difference I see here is you state Americans living oversea’s, well they are Americans still. What I don’t get is your stating you are Puerto Rican when in fact your American by birth, and Puerto Rican culturally. So my question to you ( and please note I am not trying to sound bad ) is how many generations away from birth does one still have the right to speak for a country they were not born in. My grandmother was born in Scotland, and my grandfather in Ireland so do I have a right to vote in those countries. I understand you want to retain you cultural identity of being Puerto Rican but at what point do people not born there have a say. My mothers family side has been in the USA since the Revolutionary War, so do I still get to vote in Russia where they came from. You point is flawed in my option, you want to keep you cultural alive but you are not embracing the culture of where you family decided to move to. Like my ancestors yours choose to move to the US they keep some of their traditions but you are in fact an American not a Puerto Rican. Like I said I am not trying to be bad or. Mean but you logic is flawed.

    • Thinking that place of birth alone defines your nationality is an American mentality. Just because I was born on USA soil, so what? The USA might consider me American and legally I am. But My parents could’ve given birth to me in freaking China yet would that make me Chinese?! Blood doesn’t change no matter where one is born. My blood is Puerto Rican. My ancestors didn’t fight in the American Revolution, or come on the Mayflower, etc. I didn’t choose where I was born. My blood is Puerto Rican, I itentify as Puerto Rican thus I AM Puerto Rican.

      And one of the unfair things about PR elections is that apparently you don’t even need Puerto Rican blood, just need to live there whereas with Scotland and Ireland, I’m sure you need to be a citizen. So why is it fair that some Irishman or Scottish person living in PR can vote in MY island just because they live there but if I were to go live in Ireland or Scotland, that STILL wouldn’t make me a citizen and I wouldn’t be able to vote in THEIR elections. Foreigners can come or leave the island whenever they want, but for those of us that actually have family and ties there, there wouldn’t be any other place for us to go! So for me…THAT’S the point that people get a say. Merely living there shouldn’t be enough either. Many American living abroad and can’t vote in their ex-pat countries so why should foreigners living in PR with no Puerto Rican blood be able to vote in OUR elections? And if the argument is “Oh well, you don’t know what it’s like to actually live there” then what about the many Americans that have lived 5+ years in another country? Have they been in the USA recently enough to understand what’s going on? As long as you have access to news, I don’t see why that should be an argument.

      So no…I think your point is flawed. I don’t see Americans voting in their adopted countries’ elections yet they live there. But yet any person living in PR can vote? How’s is that ok? In almost every other country living there isn’t enough, you have to be a citizen which most of the times means you have to have their blood or be naturalized. That’s not happening in PR so it’s not fair. And that IS valid.

      Like I said before, I decide what I am. I’m Puerto Rican. Many “fellow” Americans only see a Latina when they look at me. I was American by chance, but a Puerto Rican by fate. If I was born in China, I wouldn’t be American but I’d still have Puerto Rican blood. So…the place your born means nothing. The blood of your parents and ancestors means everything.

      • As it is, as long as you are a “legal resident” you can vote. If I pay taxes, then I have a right to determine how my money is used and by which party. And I know you don’t want to hear this but unlike Scotland and Ireland which are sovereign countries, PRico is U.S. territory. If and when it becomes independent then you can tell us “foreigners” we must be citizens to vote. Ex-patriots living abroad can still go to the US embassy and file an absentee ballot if they want to vote, provided they aren’t registered to vote in their new country. But I’m guessing you did not vote.

      • Yeah, I know those are the rules, but like I said long before that’s why it’s very unfair and that’s why you’re enjoying and taking advantage of an unequal system when the States doesn’t grant right that to the illegals that ALSO live, work and even pay taxes in the States! Especially when you admitted to mostly voting for the USA’s benefit and not PR’s and especially if PR ever DID vote independence, there would be quite an interesting situation on who would be considered “Puerto Rican citizens” and who would be Americans living on PR. YOU would probably be “illegal” then but the difference is that thanks to PR’s flawed voting system you actually CAN vote. You shouldn’t object to any illegals then. Except for PR’s flawed voting system, they’re in the same boat as you. Living, working, AND paying taxes but instead THEY get no say.

        Yeah, that’s fair. And yeah…how typical. Of course it’s easy to say “well, PR is an USA territory so at least now we can vote blah blah”. Yup, it’s VERY easy to say that when a flawed system is actually working in your favor. I’m sure illegal Mexicans would love a system like that. You actually get to influence the vote BEFORE it becomes (or if ever) independent. Lucky you. I’m sure illegals would love to vote abot their future too.

        LOL..and like I also said before…yeah your taxes are going to PR. So what? A little bit of EVERYONE’S taxes go there. And a bit of evryone’s taxes also go to Florida, Texas, Lousianna, Virginia, etc. I would SURE love to get a say in THEIR legislation! Let’s ban guns in Texas! LOL…If I can’t change Texas even though my taxes go there why should mere residents or even whites on the mainland get to change PR?! And yeah…I know you said you don’t want statehood, but I’m talking about residents on the island in general now.

        LOL…I KNOW that Americans can vote abroad. That was my point! I was saying that people that want to try to call out Puerto Ricans that don’t live on the island from getting a say use the fact we don’t live there as an excuse, but many Americans have lived abroad for years without returning to USA and yet no one’s saying THEY can’t vote just because they no longer live there, so why should Puerto Ricans that don’t live on the island not get a say?!?! (I know those are the legal rules, but I’m pointing out that those rules are unfair since still vote for THEIR country without living there) See my point now?

        Of course I voted! I voted by e-mail attachment! I wasn’t gonna risk having Romney win. So yeah…in some small way, I had a hand in Obama winning.

  148. Puerto Rico will never be a state due to Congressional opposition. PR would change the balance of power between Democrats and Republican votes in Congress. Also, how will PR become a state if it has to lower income tax rates to the levels more typical of states in the US. These rates are usually 4-8%. These tax rates, if implemented in PR, would not support the local state bureaucracy. Also, there is a big difference between Hacienda and the IRS in terms of enforcement.

    • on November 7, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Reply larroyo@ymail.com

      body {word-wrap: break-word; background-color:#ffffff;}I assure you, if congress wants to, they will impose the IRS. Why wont they? Simple. If they do, it will eliminate the final fear factor against statehood. It will trigger calls of no taxation without representation. PR is no DC! Its as large as Connecticut.  Statehood would have to be imposed. I think Congress has no choice in the long run.  The island has been incorporated, yet in limbo, since the Supreme court in Balzac changed the rules on PR, claiming that granting citizenship to a territory was not incorporation, while the same court ruled that it did in the case of Other ANGLO territories. Of course, this was during the heyday of US prejudice.  If balzac is ever seriously revisited, it will be vacated. That’s why the court(at congress’s request, Im sure, wont reopen it!)  Puerto Rico’s “unincorporated ” status is a lie. It has article 3 US federal Courts in PR. Its citizenship was amplified in 1947 to Contitutionally protected.  The contstitution clearly states that only “territories enroute to statehood” will have these, yet PR has them.   EVEN CONGRESS AND THE SUPREMES ARE CONFUSED/INCONSISTENT.Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

  149. Whoo Hooo! Obama reelected, House and Senate stay the same, and stock market crashes! Thanks ignorant voters. Why didn’t you Dumbocrats just take the House too so at least we won’t go through another 4 years of stagnation and more debt we will never be able to pay back. And that is the gift that will keep on giving, to your kids, your grand kids, and so forth. I know. Once your dead who cares. Yup, LOL!!!

    • on November 7, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Reply larroyo@ymail.com

      Stock market /dow jones down over 200 at one point today.

      Look around you. In 2016, it will all be the same. Maybe delapidated or worse. Unemployment will still be 8% & main stream media will have 4 more years to “teach” us to accept Bam’s unemployment #’s as the new “average”.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

    • Right…the stock market crashed JUST because Obama got re-elected. HAHAHA! How about conserva-shits grow the hell up! In fact, the ENTIRE reason why we’re even IN this recession is BECAUSE of YOU Republicans and rich-favoring, CEO protecting fools! “Dumbocrat” Clinton had the country in a SURPLUS! YOUR precious Bush brought us into TWO wars and enacted idiotic policies that allowed banks to LIE to the people thus setting the scene for the house market crash and comapnies to go under without hardly ANY reprecussions for the CEOS while their EMPOLYEE paid the price! Yet you peope keep saying “Well…Obama needs to stop blaming Bush blah blah” 1) Bush was president for EIGHT years while Obama was in office for FOUR! You really expect Obama to balance out let alone erase what BUSH got us into while Obama was president for HALF the time?!?! 2) Republican Congress kept BLOCKING everything that Obama tried to put forth so…it wasn’t HIS policies that were failing, it was YOUR party that kept BLOCKING said policies! People REALLY need to quit thinking that only Republicans know how to “save money”. LOL…yeah if your definition of “saving” is cutting healthcare and education yet allowing tax cuts for the super-rich! How is your precious “trickle down” theory supposed to work if not everyone works for a company?!?! “Once you’re dead who cares?” Yeah..kinda like the Republican view on the enviroment, huh? “Let’s rape the earth while we’re still increasing our populations! Let’s keep digging for oil! Let’s keep killing agriculture! Who cares?! Jesus is coming anyway! YEE HAW!” Yup.

      • I’ll let you chew on this for a while TPS. Keep in mind that all this started during Clinton’s years. Good old Barney Franks (Democrat, MA) thought everyone deserved the American dream, even if they couldn’t afford it. This concerns the housing crash bubble that burst wide open in 2007 and caused so many hard working families to lose their dream homes. On the surface it sounded so…American, and everyone living the dream. But underneath, Barney Franks and his rich fat cat banker buddies and mortgage lenders like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were seeing dollar signs. What they failed to see coming was the loud sound of a bursting housing bubble. After that everyone lost. But it wasn’t just in America, many other countries were buying CDO’S as well. And since then the global economy has been in dire straits. Thanks Dumbocrats!


      • “Dumbocrat” Clinton had the country in a SURPLUS!” TPS

        Two names come to mind when Clinton is mentioned.

        1. Newt Gingrich, who was the Republican Speaker of the House at the time. Many of the pro-growth bills came from him and his Republican House.

        2. Monica “slurp-slurp” Lewinsky. How you Dumbocrats can even say Clinton’s name without an embarrassed grin is beyond me. I guess as long as you can boast about “his” great economy you will overlook anything, even the abuse of a young girl by a sexual pervert. I wonder what Michelle Obama thinks about every time she enters the Oval Office? Snickers a bit I’m sure, or gags.

      • {In response to criticism, Frank said, “In 2004, it was Bush who started to push Fannie and Freddie into subprime mortgages, because they were boasting about how they were expanding homeownership for low-income people. And I said at the time, ‘Hey—(a) this is going to jeopardize their profitability, but (b) it’s going to put people in homes they can’t afford, and they’re gonna lose them.'”[8] In 2009 Frank responded to what he called “wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular” for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007–2009.[53] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[53] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. “If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing,” Oxley told Frank. In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank “is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters.”[8] Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[53] Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[53] Frank further stated that “during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration’s approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush’s desk in July 2008. Moreover, “we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated.”[54]}

        These quotes were taken from Wikipedia and prove that BUSH pushed the subprime mortgages and even warned what would happen if uncontrolled! But his efforts to reform the housing market were (of course) met with Republican opposition. Hmmm…sound familiar?! Gotta hand it it to you Republicans though…you guys are REALLY good at blaming Democrats for problems YOU created! And even when the Republicans were in control for TWELVE years and never made any efforts to fix it but once control shifted back to Democrats the Federal Housing Reform Act and Mortgage Reform Act were passed!

        And I’m sure Bush’s TWO wars (one of them unecessary!) did “wonders” for our economy, right? So here’s the math again: Clinton = surplus. Bush = recession. But keep blaming Democrats for REPUBLICAN failings. The truth will always prove you wrong. So yeah…thanks, conserva-shits!

      • “2) Republican Congress kept BLOCKING everything that Obama tried to put forth so…it wasn’t HIS policies that were failing, it was YOUR party that kept BLOCKING said policies!” TPS

        That’s the price Obama paid for shoving his healthcare plan down the Republicans throats when the Democrats controlled the House and Senate at the beginning of his Presidency. And he campaigned as the bipartisan candidate. Oh, and the voters weren’t very happy either because the 2010 election threw out the Democrat majority in the House which is now controlled by the Republicans. Obama should have worked on the economy crisis first. Well, he was inexperienced and really did not have the qualifications when he took office.

        Gee, kinda like shooting ducks in a barrel TPS. I say bringing it on. You seem to be all rhetoric without facts.

      • “Edward Pinto, a mortgage-industry consultant who was the chief credit officer at Fannie Mae in the late 1980s, argued in a WSJ op-ed essay Friday that “most agree that the housing bubble started in 1997.”

        I asked Mr. Pinto why he chose 1997. He pointed to a chart of long-term home prices patched together by Robert Shiller, a Yale economist. The chart shows inflation-adjusted house prices starting to move up sharply in the late 1990s.

        Mr. Pinto believes misguided government efforts to promote homeownership were largely to blame for the bubble. He particularly points to the 1992 legislation that required the government-backed mortgage investors Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to guarantee more loans for people with shaky credit and an inability to make substantial down payments. That legislation also created a weak regulator for Fannie and Freddie.” Wall Street Journal

        The legislation in question was the pushed by Barney Franks. Was the Bush administration guilty for not stopping this? Yes. But the CDO’s were so complicated only a handful of financiers really knew how they worked. And since this program had been going on since the early 1990’s no one thought it was toxic in 2005-2007.

      • “In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the CRA of 1977.[18] Additionally, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans.[18]” Wikipedia

      • Hahaha…Flyboy. And here we were getting along so well…:( Well gee…I brought up Obama’s victory for some light teasing but I never would’ve if I’d known you’d be such a sore loser. And here you said you were “Socially more moderate”…yeah right. Republican all the way it seems like. At least own it.

        Obamacare, huh? You know you Conservatives REALLY need to make up your mind. 1st apparently Romney supported it, then he changed his mind. Gotta love how you reds always try to claim how we’re “shoving our beleifs down your throats” and so…what are YOU guys doing?! Who’s the party that wants to decide who can marry whom?! Who’s the party that wants to decide what a woman can and can’t do with her OWN body (those white Republican men will never have to suffer childbirth themsleves but I don’t see THAT stopping THEM from having unprotected sex!!!!)?!?! Who’s the party that wants to force Christianity agenda in a public setting?! WHO’S THE PARTY THAT”S SHOVING ITS BULLCRAP BELEIFS DOWN PEOPLE’S THROATS?!?! YOUR stupid party!!!! Sorry…I don’t want to ruin our almost civil relationship, but your criticisms of Democrats, prompted me to remind how narrow-minded and fiscally irresponsible your OWN party can be! And oh yeah heaven FREAKING forbid we finally have a system where disabled people and women aren’t labled as “pre-existing conditions,” where you don’t have to pay a GROSS amount of money to insurances that STILL can decide if they want to cover you or not AFTER they get your money and even then that doesn’t include medicine, doctor visits, lab works and tests!!! If YOU wanna pay pay for private care go right freaking ahead but don’t shove YOUR warped, rich butt licking beleifs down OUR throats and force people that can’t afford it to pay! We’ve dealt with YOUR crappy healthcare system LONG enough! Now you deal with OURS!

        “Obama was kind of inexperienced…” And yet he managed to do more for the common man than your stupid Bush did! What was HIS excuse for screwing up so royally?! Rhetoric, huh? LOL…I’m giving you facts. I’ve heard all the conservative crap before and it’s all BS.

        {In 1992, President George H.W. Bush signed the Housing and Community Development Act of 1992.[15] The Act amended the charter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to reflect Congress’ view that the GSEs “… have an affirmative obligation to facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low- and moderate-income families in a manner consistent with their overall public purposes, while maintaining a strong financial condition and a reasonable economic return;”[16] For the first time, the GSEs were required to meet “affordable housing goals” set annually by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and approved by Congress. The initial annual goal for low-income and moderate-income mortgage purchases for each GSE was 30% of the total number of dwelling units financed by mortgage purchases[17] and increased to 55% by 2007}

        Again from Wikipedia. So I guess the very first one that started the crisis was good ol’ Bush Sr.!!! A Republican. Hmmmm….wonder why you didn’t mention or aren’t blaming him or even his son but Clinton and Obama are in your line of fire?! Yeah…hypocrisy, hypocrisy.

        Oh and yeah….you think I care about what a politican wants to do in their private life? As long as they can do the job they were hired for, what they do with their sex life is NO ONE’s business! Plus, as if you Republicans can talk! What about the sex scandals of Republicans Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rudy Guilianni?! Are THEY “perverts” too?! LOL…if Clinton’s sex scandal is the only dirt you guys have on him, then too bad becuase at least he dd his job and we had a SURPLUS! Your Bush was the most incompetent fool ever to set foot in the White House. And seriously, Obama and Michelle have better things to think about rather than “who did what kinky thing where.” *rolls eyes*

        So sorry Flyboy, but you’re gonna have to do better. We’re all entitled to our opinions and whatnot and niether party is 100% perfect, but don’t act like the Republicans are oh so much better at “saving money” when they’re JUST as responsible if not MORE SO for what’s happening and when their idea of saving money is cutting healthcare and education, giving tax cuts to the rich, and then wondering why people don’t clamor to go to work. Well, I wouldn’t either if it means getting shitty pay, almost no benefits, overtime, and little respect! Would you!?

      • I’m sorry, but are you on a strong narcotic medication TSP? And what, because we are not agreeing with each other you are getting upset? And you attack my moderate socialist views? Why, because I believe people still need to qualify for a home the old fashion way and show proof of actual income?! Any moderate views I have on social issues takes a back seat to my fiscal conservative beliefs that people and governments should not spend more that they make.

      • LOL…so apparently I’m on drugs now?! Now why would you think that? Becuase I called you out for having a warped mentality that somehow only the Republican party knows how to save money? When THEY’RE just as much to blame (if not MORE) for the recession! WHen their idea of saving money is cutting funds for the two most important parts of society: healthcare and education yet still expect said society to function as normal?! FYI you have to actually PUT IN money before you can GET any money. A bit surprising that “business savvy” Republicans can’t seem to fathom that. Your kids won’t be getting any smarter if you cut education! Your fellow Americans won’t be getting any healthier if you cut healthcare! Yet you somehow think that THIS is the answer to our recession?!

        And yeah….I got upset because YOU got upset. You called us “Dumbocrats” and bashed Obama (seriously…I never would’ve brought him up if I had known you wouldn’t laugh it off) when we Democrats still wonder how your Bush managed to get two terms. Well now…karma, baby. Bush WASN’T bipartisan and left the country in recession. At least Obama is TRYING to be bipartisan. But of course bi-partisansm works BOTH ways. Obama isn’t going to cater to stubborn Republicans if THEY won’t meet HIM half-way either! But even that’s still more than what Bush did for Democrats so consider yourselves lucky! Seriously…if we had to deal with YOUR wretched president for eight years, you could do the same!

        And lol…I “attacked” your moderate views because you seem to preach “freedom” and “diversity” when the party you support is hell bet on violating the very Constitution you love so much and denying the “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” to women, gays, students, the elderly, and minorities, and people from other religions besides Christianity. But yeah…I guess that’s easy to ignore if you’re a white, middle class man. Yup. If it doesn’t affect you, I guess it would take a back seat. I wonder if the show was on the other foot and Democrats were preventing heterosexuals from marrying and telling MEN what to do with their bodies, if those views would still “take a back seat.” Not likely.

        Plus, like I proved earlier, the Repulicans are just as much to blame for this recession and probably more so, so they’re no more fiscally responsible than Democrats. Especially when their policies would at the best leave the country at a standstill (since if you don’t put IN money into a society, you won’t be GETTING any)

        Basic point: it takes money to run a society no matter what. Should government be more moderate in handling funds? Yes. There must always be a balance. Bt a society also doesn’t work if it helps a PART of their number (lol…and that part that doesn’t NEED any finanical help at that!) and not the other! The Poor and middle class are part of society too that also pay taxes and have jobs! The poor sometimes have 2-3 jobs but of course the problem is the system for paying peanuts to janitors, gardeners, teachers, etc. but grossly overpaying CEOS, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc! The middle class is the backbone of society and thus society should do the most for THEM not rich people who will simply horde said money in some foreign bank! It’s all about balance! But if Democrats can’t seem to find balance, Republicans aren’t doing any better at it! THAT was my point!

      • “As the Clinton administration’s top housing official in the mid-1990s, Cisneros loosened mortgage restrictions so first-time buyers could qualify for loans they could never get before, contributing to the great housing and financial crisis that began 10 years later. However, in the August 5, 2008 issue of The Village Voice, Wayne Barrett argued that Andrew Cuomo made a series of decisions as Secretary of HUD between 1997 and 2001 that helped give birth to the country’s current housing credit crisis.” Wikipedia

        That would be one Henry Cisneros, D-HUD Secretary (1993-1997) and Andrew Cuomo, D-HUD Secretary (1993-2001)

        Dumbocrats helped crash the global economy! Thank you, you bunch of freaking bleeding heart jackasses.

      • Hmmm…STILL blaming Clinton I see…Here it is AGAIN apparently you missed this quote the first time:

        {In 1992, President George H.W. Bush signed the Housing and Community Development Act of 1992.[15] The Act amended the charter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to reflect Congress’ view that the GSEs “… have an affirmative obligation to facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low- and moderate-income families in a manner consistent with their overall public purposes, while maintaining a strong financial condition and a reasonable economic return;”[16] For the first time, the GSEs were required to meet “affordable housing goals” set annually by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and approved by Congress. The initial annual goal for low-income and moderate-income mortgage purchases for each GSE was 30% of the total number of dwelling units financed by mortgage purchases[17] and increased to 55% by 2007}

        The FIRST one that enacted policies that changed the housing market was GEORGE H. W. BUSH!!!! Or Bush Sr.!!!! Let’s see you bash HIM! But noooo…you Republicans only see what you WANT to see and make up crap tht suits your needs! And let’s get real. Even if Bush Sr. and Clinton made a mistake by allowing the banks to cater to lower inclome families, it must really get to you conserva-craps that Bush Jr. was the one that screwed everything up because he sure found money (or borrowed from China no doubt) to make us go to TWO wars and threw away our surplus! Facts are facts no matter how often you deny it. The fact is that the downward spiral of the housing market might’ve started with Bush Sr. and maybe even with Clinton, but Bush Jr. was the one who put the nail in the coffin! So yeah…thanks ya bunch of good-for-nothing, gun-toting, rich ass licking, beer drinking, white imperialists bastards! Keep on playing the blame game, eh? Even when it’s your OWN faults! LOL…

      • Plus, let’s not forget that the housing situation was just PART of the recession’s snowball effect: the other parts were Wall Street and the auto industries’ failures, the deficits the wars cost, unemployment, and constant borrowing from China. And Bush Jr.’s wars and rich CEO catering policies were what threw away Clinton’s SURPLUS. That’s the truth.

      • “while maintaining a strong financial condition and a reasonable economic return” Wikipedia (TPS)

        This is what Bush Sr. signed into law. Now we have 1993 and the Clinton administration and Henry who changed the qualifying standards to make it easier for anyone to qualify for a house. No longer was it a requirement to show income statements to mortgage companies to qualify. Mortgage loan agents just took someone’s word for their monthly incomes. They even encouraged loan applicants to increase the amounts they were making basically saying “but you will be making more in the future with raises.” These are referred to as “liar loans”.

      • And in the end we will all end up paying for the national dept. Not just people making $250,000 or more. Obama just used that to gather his army of ignorant voters who will be dumb founded when Uncle Sam starts reaching into their pockets to help pay off the debt.

        American’s, never forget Fast and Furious or Benghazi where Americans were needlessly killed. Obama and company cannot keep up the lies about what they knew and when they knew it. So much for a more transparent government Obama.

      • Yes, but regardless, Bush Sr. was the one who started the trend. Clinton made it slightly worse and Bush Jr made it GRAVELY worse. But still…I commend Bush Sr on at least TRYING to lend the poor a hand when so many wouldn’t and given that banks seem eager to help out the very rich even when they are MILLIONS indebt so why not the poor? And tell me why in his own book “Think Big” Donald Trump admitted to being 9 BILLION dollars in debt and only managed to fix it “thanks to some very cooperative banks”?! And this was the guy that once wanted to run for PRESIDENT on the Republican side! Why are the once rich allowed to jack up their debts without suffering major consequences when at the first sign of inability to pay the poor and middle class are forced to forfiet EVERYTHING?! Just look at Donald Trump and Teresa’s family from Real Housewives of NJ who’s family declared bankrupcy but were STILL shown on national TV to be throwing parties, buying designer clothes, and adding on to their manison?!! At least crack addits don’t live like THAT off their Welfare! So where was the riots against the rich?! Why did no one complain THEN?! A poor black or Latino family would’ve been thrown on the street! If banks can find a way to help out the rich, there’s NO excuse they couldn’t have done the same for the poor! So sorry but the banks knew what they were doing, and they could’ve given better advice and better support instead of just taking the poor’s money and leaving them to deal with the consequences. Bush Sr. was still the 1st to sign off on this and Bush Jr. still made everything vastly worse. At least Clinton will always have the surplus as a tally in his favor. But any capitalist or government aid should be across the board! If you can’t pay, you can’y pay but then there’s no reason why the “rich” get to mooch off the governement and the banks’ loans and funds while poor get NO help. Why should a once rich person that can’t pay be treated different from a poor person who obviously can’t pay?! NO ONE should be allowed to go 9 billion in debt!

        We’d be paying and adding to the national debt regardless of who’s president. Like I said, no matter what, it takes money to run a society but at least Obama is mostly out for the people’s ineterests and not just CEOs and companies whose stupid policies helped get us into this mess. That “invisible hand” always has SOMEONE behind it…And if people were gonna be paying taxes anyway, where would be the people’s return on said taxes if Romney were president?! If anything, he would’ve given tax cuts to the rich and expect the rest of it to “trickle down”! Never mind the fact that what they’d be getting would be less than what they were giving! Never mind the fact that not everyone works for a company so how would teachers, poilce, fire fighters, constructions workers, farmers, and the self-epmployed recieve this “trickle down” return?! Yeah…face it. Romney’s policies would’ve been FAR worse than Obama’s. Romney’s would’ve relied on tax cuts for the rich and plain cuts on everything else like schools and hospitals, etc.! Don’t cut education and expect kids to miraculously get smarter! Don’t cut healthcare and expect people to miraculously feel better! How do you people not see that these would’ve only made the recession FAR worse?! Then you’d just have stupid, sick, homeless and jobless people. So…how was THAT supposed to “help” our economy again? Oh right…it’s not. It was only supposed to help the rich, right? Because it’s ok for the rest of us to suffer this dumb recession but not them, right? Even when they have money and the rest of us don’t? Even if they’re the ones that got into this mess? Yeah…I see no argument there.

        LOL…well, I don’t know much about what you’re talking about, but I don’t see you blamig Bush for all the 9/11 and Iraqi shit HE knew! So…if you’re gonna blame one…blame the other. People died needlessly then too. And we did NOT have to go to TWO dumb, oil-based wars that we’re STILL paying for. His administration violated the Constitution several times and and told more lies and “misinformation” since perhaps Watergate. So yeah…I wouldn’t b bashing Obama when you guys still have Bush to live down. At least Obama seems to give a damn since he grew up poor or middle class. Bush Jr was GIVEN everything and although he was the one who clamored for war, he sure had fun avoiding the draft, didn’t he?! A hypocrite if there ever was one. Sorry but compared to Bush Jr., Obama is the best presdient we’ve ever had (except for maybe Clinton).

      • “Yes, but regardless, Bush Sr. was the one who started the trend.” TPS

        And this is exactly why conservatives should never, ever give liberals what they want because they will take an inch and turn it into a corrupt mile, and then blame conservatives if things go terribly wrong. And I would have thought your ideology would have trumped your party affiliation in this case seeing as Bush was actually trying to do a good thing by helping lower income families in a responsible way.

        So I’m with you on this. Bush Sr. should never have signed this bill.

      • “Right…the stock market crashed JUST because Obama got re-elected.” TPS

        Yes, and the House and Senate stayed the same. That is what I posted. And as you can see, the same stagnation and fighting is continuing on how to fairly enact a new long term fiscal policy that businesses can plan with.

        Do I need to mention Einstein’s definition of insanity?

      • “That’s why conservatives should never, ever give liberals what they want..” Flyboy

        Then maybe that’s why liberals should never, ever elect conservative presidents if they’re just going to derail the economy and then blame OUR methods…as if THEIR’s work so well. LOL because giving the rich money and not the poor is always the answer to our problems, eh? Well, good luck ever seeing it then. And lol…did you not read my comment? I DID give Bush Sr. kudos for at least trying to help the poor. Geez…and you usually copy and paste my comments. Well, here it is again: “But still…I commend Bush Sr on at least TRYING to lend the poor a hand when so many wouldn’t and given that banks seem eager to help out the very rich even when they are MILLIONS indebt so why not the poor?” That is what I said. But like I then added, if these oh-you’re-broke-well-too-bad banks can find some miracles of the Gods to help out Donald Trump who as you recall went to 9 BILLION dollars in debt and Teresa’s family who were adding additions to their house although they were supposedly “bankrupt” why oh why couldn’t these banks help out the poor and middle class families?! You have YET to answer me on this and “prove” how well your conservatives ways “work.” Because let’s face it, they don’t. Facts are facts. And if those banks could turn around a 9 billion dollar debt then there’s absolutely NO excuse why they couldn’t help out the many families whose ENTIRE motrgages TOGETHER probably wouldn’t come out to 9 billion dollars. So seriously? Why aren’t you railing against your almost presidential candidate and ask him what right he had to drive up so much freaking debt but meanwhile you’re taking your anger out on Obama and the poor?! That makes no sense to me flyboy, and I would’ve thought your frugal conservatism would’ve trumped YOUR loyalty to your party since these rich are and have always just taken advatage of a system they berate the poor for doing.

        “The Senate and House stayed the same”- Flyboy. Well….like I said before, I just hope that if the Republicans still want Obama to be bi-partisan (like he was doing before) then they better meet him halfway. But you can’t expect something from nothing. Law of physics. If you don’t put at least SOME money into a society or economy, you’re not gonna get anything back. So the problem isn’t governement spending but rather the HOW. How it’s spent and how much. Most of that money should go back into jobs and education. It’s all about balance.


    • And yet PRicans elected a status quo governor. How does that make sense?

      Most people, in the US, polled said jobs and the economy were their main concern. They also believed Romney would be the better candidate to improve the economy. Yet they voted for Obama. Now what were they thinking?

      As our founding fathers believed, voters are irrational.

      • on November 8, 2012 at 11:45 am larroyo@ymail.com

        It may mean a couple of things…. 1. Puerto Rican voters have finally learned that important issues are bigger than any one candidate. (” yes to statehood, but Fortuño?,you gotta go.”)

        2. Puerto Ricans voted statehood as a MESSAGE TO REJECT FREE ASSOCIATION, or better stated, to prevent either independence options from getting 50% combined votes. A message that they want PERMANENT POLITICAL UNION with US. Statehood or Not.

        3. The third possible option is the worst. It means Puerto Ricans don’t take anything seriously……….That Pro Padilla voters voted statehood to victory only to spite Fortuño. To torture him mentally. “Here is your statehood victory,but you wont be around to defend it….hahaha”

        But I think not. Its already established that almost all “YES” votes for Commonwealth in question 1 left question 2 blank. (The correct thing to do.)

        Only those who voted “NO” to commonwealth/present territory get to choose alternatives on question 2.

        Again 61% for statehood. Question is how many meant it? How many did so holding their noses, as a protest against the PPD’s seperatist Free asociation arm? Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      • That referendum was the most BS and misleading crap I’ve ever read! Yeah, at first glance it looks like most Puerto Ricans favor statehood, but then again that’s what that stupid thing is SUPPOSED to do. Mislead people into believeing that statehood is gaining popularity and is “inevitable.” But let’s do the math, shall we?

        1) Only 54% even want to change the status quo meaning that the other 46% would prefer things to remain as they are even if their SECOND choice is statehood. This means for those 46%, statehood wouldn’t be their first choice and isn’t the ideal for them.

        2) But not ALL 54% that voted to change PR’s status also voted for statehood. So the question is how many Puerto Ricans voted statehood as a FIRST choice?

        This is why this crappy referendum is sooo misleading…many voted statehood as a second choice but were happier with maintaining the island as is. I think the best way to word the next referendum is to take commonwealth completely out of the equation and instead ask: “If PR were to change its current commonwealth status, which would you prefer…?” That way, the question is stated hypothetically and doesn’t necessarily imply that PR must changie its current status but at least gives a more accurate picture of just how many Puerto Ricans would have statehood as their first and best option. But the way the referendum is now makes one assume that 61% want statehood as their first choice when the amount of people that vote “yes” to maintaining its current status negated that. I read somewhere that the real number of Puerto Ricans that want statehood as their first choice is closer to 44%.

        People REALLY need to word these referendums better. Not only would Iate for PR to be a state, but I’d also hate for PR to be TRICKED into statehood only to later regret it and have a situation like Quebec in Canada and Catalonia in Spain.