Guess our original blog about Puerto Rico not becoming the 51st state from a few months ago has been circulating the political circles in Puerto Rico and the United States, since the comments continue to trickle in. This is our favorite one of the week from reader Bruce R. Harris:
Americans will never accept a flag with 51 stars in it
“I have a question for you we don’t pay fed taxes and that is true, if we become a state we will. Now you mention that against us, but where in the US Constitution says that a US Citizen can not vote because it do not paid federal taxes?” Israel
My posts are answers to one of your faithful, yet ignorant followers. I’m just surprised you did not provide an answer to Israels’ question. Is it because you are not very familiar with US history, and the why’s of how things are supposed to be accomplished in Congress?
Spreading bad poop is not the way to get people together. If you want to be taken as a serious mediator by people of all sides of the issues then provide only factual and truthful comments all of the time. And this statement below will win you absolutely no points from most of Americans, including many of my latino friends.
“So now that you have the history of this politically charged debate (it has basically been the respective rallying cry between the PPD and the PNP), I still say this: In today’s America, a place where anti-Latino sentiment towards illegal immigrants and legal citizens has never been stronger, why would Puerto Rico, a proud country with ties to both the United States and Latin America, want to become the 51st state? Even if it did (and the current governor Luis Fortuño is a strong advocate of statehood), the America we know today would never welcome it.”
Ok, so we are now accused of spreading “bad poop” but we will let Bruce in on a thing or two:
- This blog is NOT a moderator of all sides. If you know the history of this blog, you would know that we do not support statehood for Puerto Rico.
- Bruce, we have NO CLUE what you mean about “taxation without representation,” because the reality is that Puerto Rico DOES NOT PAY FEDERAL TAXES but still has a non-voting representative in the US Congress. Your argument makes no sense. Technically, Puerto Rico has minimal representation in Congress, although it is non-voting. Also, the American Revolution had to do with NOT BECOMING part of the British Empire; your logic is reversed here. If anything, the US would understand if Puerto Rico would choose to secede from the US.
- Last time we checked, more US Latinos we know feel that Puerto Rico would benefit from a more realistic political arrangement with the United States, such as free association or (gasp) independence.
- Here is what the Fortuñistas cannot answer: even if a non-binding plebiscite favors statehood, the FINAL AUTHORITY of Puerto Rico’s status is the US Congress and right now, in the era of extreme right vs. left politics in the US, very few people in Congress would have the courage to say that Puerto Rico (and the $19 billion dollars per year it would cost to maintain it) should become a state.
He means the post/question by somebody named Isreal, you genuis, not the country.
If the people in PR unite and ask for statehood, it will be granted, guaranteed. Whether or not the people of PR ever unify that strongly is up for debate. Of course, it doesn’t seem likely for now, but Obama has already come to PR and told the people that he will honor whatever the people want. I find it hard to believe that the US would turn down a free choice by the people of PR asking for statehood. Hawaii and Alaska got it, so would PR. I am not a Foruño-ist or even a PNP, but PR can get statehood if they ask for it.
The PLEBISCITE is a NON-BINDING VOTE, meaning that even if 88% of the island votes for statehood, the US Congress will stay have final say. Keep dreaming. sorry.
Your comparisons to Alaska and Hawaii are weak ones, why do you think they became states of the Union? Think for a moment. Ready? 1. What does Alaska have that the US need? Where is Alaska located in relation to Russia? 2. Where is Hawaii located in relation to Asia. It is not a coincidence that these states became states during the Cold Way for US strategic reasons. Again, keep thinking that PR becoming a state is a real political reality in the 21st century US. It is not going to happen, when will we are a Puerto Rican nation understand this?
According to your reasoning Julito, Guam should be a state since it is so much closer to Asia which would give the US a better buffer zone. Sorry, you will have to rethink your logic. And let us not forget that following WWII the US had complete control of Japan and Germany, and if Patton had his way we would have marched right into Russia and taken control of that country. After all, we were the only ones who had an atomic weapon, had used it so their was not doubt we would use it again if need be. The world was pretty much at our mercy in 1945. but what did the US do? Under the Marshall Plan millions of dollars was spent to help rebuild Germany, Japan and the Philippines just to name a few countries. The US does not want to occupy territories. It wants trading partners. After all we are a capitalist country. maybe Puerto Rico can find a way to be a better trading partner with the US instead of a tax drain on US citizens who pay federal taxes.
You still here, Bruce? Yawn.
Bruce, I don’t think you get it, I don’t support statehood! You are proving my point. Also, good to know that you are not Puerto Rican and you actually represent what the vast majority of Americans don’t give a crap about Puerto Rico. Thanks for the blog traffic!
Of course Alaska and Hawaii are different, but PR also has its advantages to US otherwise they would’ve let us go long ago. PR will become a state if they want to. That is not a question. Stop drinking your pipiolo or PDP juice buddy, that is an antiquated, old argument (that the US wouldn’t let PR become a state) brought out of fear and inferiority complex. The question is do the people of PR want that? If they want it, US will give it to them. Make no mistake about it.
I am not a PDPer, god forbid!!!! Here is the fact: 19 billion dollars of US federal money if PR were to be a state. It is so funny that you think that a NON-BINDING resolution will mean that the US will grant Puerto Rico whatever it wants. LOL. You are too funny. Your statehooders bring out the same old arguments (Hawaii, Alaska, Tennessee Plan) etc. Also, with the recent federal mess that Puerto Rico is in (DOJ, Social Security), a lot of Americans actually don’t give a crap about PR, as much as you might think otherwise. They want jobs, not another state. There is no way it will happen. Not even close. But so what, you guys will continue to spin the myths about US democracy and acceptance. Hate to tell you, hermano, go to Phoenix and you will be just Latino. Good luck! ¡Suerte! LOL Your jokes crack me up.
If you are the moderator of this blog Julito, then maybe you could write something about yourself and what you want for Puerto Rico. From your posts you sound like an angry and frustrated “statehooder” who has pretty much given up on the idea based on what you perceive as a racist and monetary reason for why Americans will never vote PR as the 51st state. This is just my subjective observation only based on your posts.
And you keep mentioning 19 billion dollars the US would spend on PR if it became state. Do you know how much is being spent on PR right now?
Remember, the US started out as a British colony. You might want to do some research on these 13 colonies and how they went about gaining the status America has now. But please, please don’t get me wrong. I am not, I repeat, not advocating war against the US. Just understanding the processes undertaken by the American colonists will help Puerto Ricans find a way to whatever status they choose.
Yes, I am an American. But I was born into a military family and traveled throughout the world. When I graduated HS I joined the military and traveled another 20 years. So my thinking may surprise you.
So I extend my hand to you in a friendly handshake and let’s discuss this topic without name calling or preconceived ideas about people. Can we do that Julito?
This is my blog. My posts are very pro-associated state pro-independence for PR. I don’t need to change anything.
Ok, you win. Go start your own blog, since you are such a political genius. Peace.
Your brilliance and logic has bedazzled me. You are so right, PR has no clue. We are just ignorant islanders with no history of political repression or self-determination. We are just blind colonialists and lovers of the US. Your intelligence has overwhelmed me.
Check my previous posts under Puerto Rico on this blog and you will see all the posts I have done. Also, since you are not Puerto Rican, I really don’t think you can claim to be an authority on Puerto Rican history or politics. Hard to explain boricuaness to my fellow Americans. I will say u represent the 1 percent of Americans who pretend to truly understand the PR status paradox.
BTW, Americans can’t agree what to do to 11 million illegals in this country, there is no way they could ever accept a 4 million Latino state in the Union.
Well that’s a start Julito. But can you be more specific? I have an idea what you want for Puerto Rico. And if I am correct about what you want, you will have a very difficult uphill political fight to achieve your goals. And I think you know why I say that. Are you familiar with the saying “you want your cake and eat it too.” It’s the same as saying you want all of the rights and benefits without shouldering the responsibilities. If I am wrong in my assumption please feel free to straighten me out. I’m all ears. Or in this case “all eyes.”
“Bruce, we have NO CLUE what you mean about “taxation without representation,” because the reality is that Puerto Rico DOES NOT PAY FEDERAL TAXES but still has a non-voting representative in the US Congress.” Unknown Author
That is my point. In short, if you want to play, then you have to pay! Get it?! It is because PR has no direct voting representation in the US Congress they are not required to pay federal taxes. This is what came out of the “Boston Tea Party” when the British colonists were angry at Britain for having to pay Britain taxes when they had no representation in British Parliament. It would help Puerto Ricans to better understand what Americans went through that led up to the American revolution. But I am not advocating going to war against the US. I know well how communication between Americans and Puerto Ricans can be difficult, but it does not have to be impossible. I am not an enemy here, so can we please just “hand shake” and discuss this very important topic in a constructive way and not resort to name calling please?!
You obviously have a pretty grasp in writing english, but I am not so sure you are comprehending my writings. My posts are about American history Julito. I have said very little about PR history.
Since your PR history is better then mine, I won’t insult you when I talk about the events that took place here. And concerning the english language, remember when Munoz in the 1950’s stopped teaching english in PR schools and resorted back to the native language of Spanish? Why then did he send his own children to english speaking schools? I am not trying to create a fight by asking this question. I just want to here your thoughts on this since you are fluent in english writing.
I grew up fully bilingual and am blessed to be that. You know that the PR elite has always favored private schools over public schools. Muñoz did that for the island to win support for ELA and cozy up to a Cold War US. The reality is that the failed policies of the two parties in PR have only heightened the island’s woes, which are numerous to begin with. I think both the Populares and the Progesistas are part of the problem. What PR needs is a more politically real party like ALAS. As for the PIP, they are still stuck in 1961. Sad.
“You know that the PR elite has always favored private schools over public schools.” Julitos
Yep, same as the elites in the US. But why were these private schools teaching english and not spanish?
“Muñoz did that for the island to win support for ELA and cozy up to a Cold War US.” Julitos
I’m sorry but you lost me here. Can you go into more detail?
Muñoz was politically savvy, he knew he needed the US to help out the island in the 40s and 50s and the US needed cheap labor (Operation Bootstrap). It is no wonder that Muñoz’s pro-independence enemies migrated to US for jobs during those times. When Cuba fell in 1960, Muñoz was quick to have JFK visit the island, the first President to do so. It is obvious that Muñoz was pragmatic but he knew that if we went too pro-US, he would lose his base. Muñoz’s pragmatism worked within the political context of the era, but his system has drowned the island after so many decades.
You see Julito I understand the initials ELA stands for Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, but how does converting teaching english to spanish figure in on the deal?
ALAS
Association of Latino Administrators and Superintendents
This is a political movement? Their web site seems to deal more with the educational needs of Latino children then anything else. Is there something more to this organization then the name suggests?
NO ALAS is a political movement in PR, not the ALAS in US
http://asociacionysoberania.blogspot.com/2010/03/ponencia-de-alas-ante-el-comite.html
Thanks for the link to ALAS. No offense but if you are waiting for the UN to pull some weight forget it. I’m sorry but you probably already know what a useless organization the UN is. You think we can find them a place down in PR so we can move them out of NY? Make a lot of New Yorkers happy.
Alright I understand the need for a strategic base in the Caribbean because of Castro’s connection with Russia, but we did not lose Gitmo Naval Base, Cuba and back in 1939 Ramey Air Base was established for long range bombers. Seems Puerto Rico and the US already had a pretty cozy relationship.
But regardless, all of this history is pretty much moot at this point. I don’t think the invasion of Puerto Rico in 1898 is the issue as this/would have guaranteed Puerto Rico’s independence if the US had left immediately afterwards. Unfortunately that did not happen. What we have now is a very messy, personal relationship between PR and the US. It’s kind of like a marriage gone really bad but we are still together for the kids.
Fort Buchanan
Vieques
Need for cheap labor in industrial NE
Post-Cuba investment in PR tourism industry
Shall I continue? FYI, late 19th century America = manifest destiny
Let’s face it, teaching children a second language does not change ones culture. But it does provide children with another tool to compete in this tough world we live in. Can that be a bad thing? Funny but I am assuming you are bilingual in Spanish and English. Are you? If you are then you should know what I am talking about.
So you would be ok with allowing Dominicans into PR? Please think this through very carefully Julito, because a yes answer would effect the livelihood of many PR families here on the island. Just because you say no to my question, after having thought it through completely, would that make you a racist?
Nice move to try and trap me into linking the animosity between DR and PR on island to status. PR has a subtle racism that is a sad part of the island’s history. Again you are just proving my point that US will never allow for a Latino state right now.
“BTW, Americans can’t agree what to do to 11 million illegals in this country, there is no way they could ever accept a 4 million Latino state in the Union.”
Julito
And back at you in trying to side step your own post. This is what I based my question to you on. So far Julito you have avoided all of my questions that would force you to rethink your die hard beliefs. Why? Are you afraid of what your answers might be? God forbid you open up your mind a little and see things a bit differently. Having traveled throughout the world and listened to others without judging, too much, I changed my views of cultures as I got older.
I joined the army in the early 70’s thinking the war in Vietnam was righteous. (Righteous-hows that for a truly hippie way of expressing myself. Hee Hee) As I got older and learned more about what was happening at that time and why we, as Americans, were told BS lies about the commies taking over Vietnam and we should go fight them, I now know we were wrong for being there. But the Frenchies were so convincing (Vietnam was a French colony then) that we just jumped right in and…well, the rest is history as they say.
I stand by my politically real beliefs. Agree to disagree and move on.
Well for what it’s worth Julito I don’t believe it’s the Americans who are standing in the way. Most don’t even know where PR is, let alone the colonial status. As for Congress, most of those loony tunes can’t even find their own ass. Have you seen the polls lately for Congress?!
Because the majority of Americans have no clue about PRico. They don’t care.
My ancestors came over from English in the 1600’s. I have a family history that dates back to the colony days. Not many Americans can say that. My ancestors helped the fight against Britain to gain our independents. I am very proud of my American history and what America stands for, and that has always been diversity in cultures. I am not saying all Americans fight for diversity, as not all PR’s fight for diversity either. Just take a look around your own island and you can see how true that is. It’s been over 100 years since the US invaded PR, yet the language here is still english. How long do you think it took Spain and the Catholic church to start converting the Taino indians to become simulated into the Spanish culture? And remember to the technology, or lack of back then to get from Spain to PR. Now just look at how many countries Spain converted? All the way from the Atlantic/Caribbean to the Pacific Ocean. That is huge for a nation that had to sail around the globe. And think how long Spain held onto many of these countries. 1898!!! Pretty impressive Julito, wouldn’t you say?!
Good for you. History teaches us lessons, but to say that PRicans have the will politically to be like the American colonists is laughable. PRicans like their Costcos right now and that is sad as well.
Yes, but on the positive side it does provide jobs to many people here. Is that really such a bad thing? Under Free Association with the US those companies would still be allowed to compete here right?
Well let’s be grateful that manifest destiny did not continue in the 20th century when America had the A-bomb. Yes, Julito, we Americans have our faults but we aren’t totally corrupted of morality. And I can’t say whether or not Americans care about PR’s situation or not. I do know most have their own problems at home worrying about their families, especially now with the economy being so bad.
15% unemployment in PR
That only counts the people who are receiving unemployment benefits Julito. The real figure is probably closer to 20%, Maybe slightly higher.
Curios… are you Julito or Frankie? Or both?
Franky is my novel being published soon
So you went Harvard?
Yes, class of 1990. Here is my profile: http://visualcv.com/juliorvarela
Impressive. Not many people can say they attended Harvard. I have a buddy who went to Yale. I believe it was the class of 1978. I attended Texas State University. That’s impressive too if you knew my high school grades. Most of my family live around Boston. Mother lives on Cape Cod. Go Red Sox! Love those “idiots.”
Ha! Love it! GO SOX!
If I didn’t know better I would think the whole season had been orchestrated by the syndicate, leading up to the playoffs with the Yankees which had to happen due to the curse. But baseball would be a bit tough to manipulate.
So Julito, do you have designs on the Governors Mansion some day?
Ha! I would need to scrub my entire college and early 20s. Good thing Facebook wasn’t around in the early 90s!
Should a law be passed that says anything that is said over the internet, or on twitter, or any other social networking app should not be held against anyone once they reach the age of 30? You know, like the law we have now that excuses most crimes committed by juveniles is sealed once they reach 18?
Yes!!!!!
Back on topic Julito. What is ALAS doing to get the information out to Americans concerning the status situation? When I go home to NE I talk about the situation going on here. I have a sister-in-law whose father worked in an embassy in one of the Latin American countries, and even she is unaware of the situation here. It seems to me the best way to get the word out is by using social networks the way they did in the middle east this past year. Not to advocate anything like what is taking place there but to just get Americans talking. Just going through Congress is not the way to get this done. Pressure needs to be put on Congress through Americans. I will bet my bottom dollar that Americans are truly ignorant to the situation here. Does ALAS present a cost benefit approach to the Free Association status with the US? Considering the situation in the US economically, Americans would warm up to that.
Puerto Rico will never be a state,and it will be as a result of the arrogance of the statehood party. The Presidential task force on PR status recomended a 2 vote process. First, whether to keep Commenwealth status or seek new permanent sovereign status. If majority picks new status, a 2nd vote between Statehood and Independence(full or in Free Association). This way, if statehood wins the second vote,its consistent with the previous rejection of Commonwealth. When skeptical PuertoRicans see congress pass statehood legislation, Prs who feel voting for statehood is a fail,will now vote yes in the final federal vote….BUT NO!!!! The NPP/PNP has to CHEAT! In their arrogance, they want the first vote to be for Statehood vs Independence, the second for the winner (obviously statehood) vs Commonwealth. WHAT A BUNCH OF FOOLS! The media will hype the historic moment all Americans learn that 98% of PuertoRicans (actually all PNP voters vs 2% PIP independence advocates hopelessly outnumbered) Voted for statehood. Americans won’t be told by the clueless media that commonwealth was off the ballot.Even if they did, nobody cares…Americans will wake up to a 98% statehood petition. Celebration? NOPE! Because in the SECOND vote with Statehood VS COMMONWEALTH, The commonwealth people,will vote massively with the Indipendence party to defeat statehood. Even if statehood wins, it would be at best a 55-60% victory,a massive collapse from the 98% just a year before! Keep in mind that the commonwealth voters did not participate in the first vote, giving statehood an artificial supermajority of 98%. When non hispanic americans see the second votes results, they will go crazy! Comedians will make fun of Puerto Rico making a 180 degree turn on statehood, voting for it before voting against it!!! Congress will decide Puerto Rico is politically unstable and dangerously undecisive, and will announce that Statehood will NEVER be an option. IT will remain a commonwealth forever ,or untill Congress forces Independence on them, OR ceedes the Island to back to Spain.LOL. anyway…the trap against statehood has bben set, and the STUPID STATEHOODERS by arrogance and cheating, have fallen for it. I’m pro statehood, but also see the reality….not goin to happen for said reason.
Works for us!
I’ve learned a lot here just by reading what everyone has said. I have to do a paper on whether Puerto Rico should be independent, remain a commonwealth, or become a state. Personally, I feel that they should be a state if only to receive the same voting rights that everyone else has, to have the right to trade with who they want, and to help with their own financial situation. My children are a mix of Puerto Rican and German with a little Italian thrown in. They are fluent in four languages and I am proud of that. My oldest daughter feels that PR should be Independent so as to not lose any of their culture and heritage. My son and other children are for statehood. I thank everyone for their comments, it has helped me
Fantastic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!